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#55740 8-Jan-2010 14:16
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Anyone know when 2degrees is rolling out their 3G network? I heard they are going to be using UMTS 2100. That's a shorter-range, high capacity frequency in keeping with their urban-based infrastructure. It also works with both Telecom XT and Vodafone phones.....in the cities. 


Timing? 




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  #288135 8-Jan-2010 14:30
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It's been live in the Wellington CBD since mid December. I've forgotten to take a 2degrees SIM with me the last couple of times I've been in the City to test and see if they accept connections yet.

The frequency of a 3G network makes no difference to it's capacity - a 5MHz WCDMA network at 850, 900 or 2100 network will still have the same capacity.

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  #288248 8-Jan-2010 18:14
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sbiddle: It's been live in the Wellington CBD since mid December. I've forgotten to take a 2degrees SIM with me the last couple of times I've been in the City to test and see if they accept connections yet.

The frequency of a 3G network makes no difference to it's capacity - a 5MHz WCDMA network at 850, 900 or 2100 network will still have the same capacity.


It is going to cost a fortune if 2D decides to use this frequency band to rollout 3G to the rest of the country.
Wouldn't surprise me if they used some of their 900 MHZ spectrum as Vfone has done for UMTS application.

 
 
 
 


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  #288252 8-Jan-2010 18:50
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Nationwide 2100 3G would never happen, it simply doesn't stack up.

900 is a possibility if they own enough spectrum, I'm not sure how many MHz they actually own now. They did swap their 800 spectrum for 900 this time last year.

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  #288263 8-Jan-2010 19:37
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If they are smart, then rolling out 3G 900 for their out of main centres would be way to go. Leaving 2G + 3G 2100 for main centres only. Sure they may miss the odd bit of revenue, but I think is still a better long term option, even if they still keep up a 2G roam deal with Vodafone




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  #288268 8-Jan-2010 19:50
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2degrees in CHCH is started showing 3G in the manual operator selection screen before christmas on my Nokia, still even with it set to Dual Mode, it still only connects in 2G mode. 


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  #288279 8-Jan-2010 20:25
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I've been able to use 3G on 2degrees in Auckland since before Christmas, as an inbound roamer.



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  #288296 8-Jan-2010 21:43
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Ii'm no expert. Wikipedia says UMTS 850 / 900 are used for low-density, broad coverage & 1900 / 2100 are used for unfilled where more capacity is needed. They explicitly say 2100 offers more frequencies, Is that not true?




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  #288301 8-Jan-2010 21:50
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2100 3G at Auckland Airport, unavailable to local 2degrees customers at the moment.

I'm hoping we'll see some 3G action from them soon - I want to try them out (but not for too long at the current data rates)


They have a 3G roaming agreement also with Vodafone (outside of main centres) that covers 2100 and 900MHz right? That way it shouldn't be too hard to get off the ground with most of the country covered if that happens.




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  #288302 8-Jan-2010 21:56
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Linuxluver: Ii'm no expert. Wikipedia says UMTS 850 / 900 are used for low-density, broad coverage & 1900 / 2100 are used for unfilled where more capacity is needed. They explicitly say 2100 offers more frequencies, Is that not true?


Where does it say that?

UMTS doesn't use "frequencies" because it's a wideband network - it uses a block of spectrum, typically a 5Mhz pair. Vodafone New Zealand for example have 2 x 15Mhz blocks of 2100MHz spectrum.

The number of calls a UMTS network can carry in that 2 x 5MHz pair of spectrum makes no difference whether it's at 850Mhz or 2100Mhz.

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  #288307 8-Jan-2010 22:17
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sbiddle: Nationwide 2100 3G would never happen, it simply doesn't stack up.

900 is a possibility if they own enough spectrum, I'm not sure how many MHz they actually own now. They did swap their 800 spectrum for 900 this time last year.



They do have GSM 1800 as well. Could they use 1800 for extra capacity freeing up 900 for WCDMA?
Do they have to apply to the government body to use there own (900) spectrum for WCDMA as well as GSM?




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  #288381 9-Jan-2010 10:53
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sbiddle: This article contains the statement: "The 850 MHz and 900 MHz bands provide greater coverage compared to equivalent 1700/1900/2100 MHz networks, and are best suited to regional areas where greater distances separate subscriber and base station."

It would explain why Vodafone uses 900 for national coverage and Telecom XT uses 850....and neither use 2100 for covering large areas.


Reading elsewhere indicated the frequencies concerned have differing capabilities with respect to building penetration in built-up areas and this also makes the longer wavelengths better suited to more open, less built-up situations. Perhaps this is where the idea of capability / capacity crept in to some of the stuff I have been reading.  They may have the same number of frequencies in each group, but the groups differ in terms of their observed 'behaviour' or attributes in the physical world. 


Like I said, I'm no expert. These explanations were plausible to me in so far as they aligned perfectly with how these networks have actually been rolled out in NZ: 850 / 900 for wide coverage and 2100 for infill / urban areas.


If you can shed any light on this, I'd be grateful. I always prefer to be corrected than to be left to talk crap. :-)  




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  #289891 14-Jan-2010 09:14
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Linuxluver: 
Reading elsewhere indicated the frequencies concerned have differing capabilities with respect to building penetration in built-up areas and this also makes the longer wavelengths better suited to more open, less built-up situations. Perhaps this is where the idea of capability / capacity crept in to some of the stuff I have been reading.  They may have the same number of frequencies in each group, but the groups differ in terms of their observed 'behaviour' or attributes in the physical world. 


Like I said, I'm no expert. These explanations were plausible to me in so far as they aligned perfectly with how these networks have actually been rolled out in NZ: 850 / 900 for wide coverage and 2100 for infill / urban areas.



If you can shed any light on this, I'd be grateful. I always prefer to be corrected than to be left to talk crap. :-)  


 

The 850/900 bands were allocated in the analogue/2G days and were intended for voice mobile systems - there are about 2x20MHz in each band.

The 2100MHz band is the original 3G band which is intended for higher levels of traffic (i.e. data as well as voice). There is 2x60MHz available here. This is what they mean by 'more frequencies'

For interest, the "IMT-2000 extension" band (2.5GHz) for 4G will have 190MHz total available to cope with even higher levels of traffic.




 

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  #289895 14-Jan-2010 09:30
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Linuxluver:
Like I said, I'm no expert. These explanations were plausible to me in so far as they aligned perfectly with how these networks have actually been rolled out in NZ: 850 / 900 for wide coverage and 2100 for infill / urban areas.




XT is a 850Mhz nationwide. 2100 is only used for infill and to provide additional capacity, it's not used to actually provide primary coverage to urban areas on XT.

Likewise Vodafone will eventually rollout 900Mhz WCDMA across their entire network since it offers far better inbuilding coverage in urban areas and also increases the capacity of the WCDMA network. 2100 is their primary 3G network in urban areas simply because 900 WCDMA wasn't around when the network was built.




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  #289905 14-Jan-2010 10:03
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andrewcnz:
Do they have to apply to the government body to use there own (900) spectrum for WCDMA as well as GSM?


Other then having to ensure they don't interfere with neighbouring frequency users, I am fairly sure they can do what ever they want with the spectrum they have rights to.

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  #289907 14-Jan-2010 10:15
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wellygary:
andrewcnz:
Do they have to apply to the government body to use there own (900) spectrum for WCDMA as well as GSM?


Other then having to ensure they don't interfere with neighbouring frequency users, I am fairly sure they can do what ever they want with the spectrum they have rights to.


Yip.. Things are different in the EU however. Frequency blocks were sold with only certain technologies permitted. The delay in 900 UMTS in many European Countries has been caused by rules diciating that GSM was the only technology allowed to be used in this band.




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