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Topic # 58582 15-Mar-2010 16:00
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Following on from this post...

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=85&topicid=46928

Eight months down the track and still no resolution...

In short: Vodafone Ireland and Vodafone UK are not forwarding SMSs to 2degrees in NZ, presumably to protect the interests of Vodafone NZ.



I recently forwarded the following to every Irish Society in NZ and every Irish contact I could, to whit -

If you have switched to 2degrees as your mobile phone provider here you may or may not be aware that txt messages originating from Vodafone Ireland/UK are not reaching 2degrees customers here in NZ. Family and friends at home are probably not aware that their messages to your 2degrees phone are not being forwarded by Vodafone Ireland (but they are still being charged nonetheless). Vodafone Ireland and Vodafone UK have likely made the decision not to facilitate txting to 2degrees to protect the interests of Vodafone New Zealand but have not advised their Irish customers that their SMS messages to 2degrees will not be delivered. There doesn’t appear to be any problem with the other Irish Telcoms Meteor, O2 or Three; the problem is just with Vodafone.
 

2degrees advise that, while they have given this issue top priority, the decision lies with Vodafone Ireland and until Vodafone customers at home lobby their carrier to connect with 2degrees in New Zealand the problem will likely remain.

 

If you are a 2degrees customer here and wish to continue to avail of their (very much) cheaper overseas txting charges to Ireland and the UK and expect at the same time to be able to receive messages from friends and family at home on Vodafone, please ask them to contact Vodafone Ireland and request that this issue be resolved from their end as this is the only action likely to effect a change. I don’t know how many thousand Irish people are here in NZ communicating with the folks back home but if everybody passes on the info then we may be able to get their attention. Vodafone is the largest mobile phone provider in Ireland; it’s in everybody’s interest that they facilitate communication with all NZ networks.

 

Cheers


 

 

(No affiliation with 2degrees whatsoever)


Change has to be enacted from their end, get your contacts in Ireland and the UK to demand that Vodafone stop monopolizing the market and  accommodate 2degrees in NZ.

Happy St. Patricks Day to y'all

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  Reply # 307434 15-Mar-2010 16:36
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What proof do you have that this is the reason SMS's don't work?

It's certainly different to the reason I've heard and have no reason to doubt.



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  Reply # 307438 15-Mar-2010 16:44
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The OP Dangermouse clearly has not checked there facts before posting the rubbish above

%100 false and made up

John



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  Reply # 307441 15-Mar-2010 16:49
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Proof that Vodafone Ireland aren't forwarding txts to 2degrees? Or proof of the reason why?

That txts from Vodafone Ireland aren't reaching 2degrees mobiles here is simply a fact.

That it's because Vodafone Ireland aren't forwarding them? My only proof is that that is what 2degrees tell me is happening when I enquire as to why I'm not receiving SMSs from family and friends at home, that they have been unable to enter into a reciprocal agreement with Vodafone Ireland/UK.

Would be very interested to hear other theories?



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  Reply # 307444 15-Mar-2010 16:52
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Here is the response, verbatim, I received from 2degrees when I enquired about txt issues from Ireland...

"At the moment there is an issue with text messages not being delivered from Vodafone in Ireland and the UK to 2degrees customers. Texts are being delivered to them ok but as we do not have an agreement they are not sending the replies onto our customers. We have posted more information about this on our website as it is affecting a few people - http://www.2degreesmobile.co.nz/texting-with-people-overseas.

We will log your details with our Support team so that they can investigate further and advise you once we have resolved this. Unfortunately at the moment we cannot provide an ETA and it is unlikely to be fixed quickly. This is our highest priority right now and we are very sorry for any inconvenience that this is causing you.

We would also suggest that your friend contacts their provider to advise them of the issue as this will help speed up the process."

Are they telling porkies then?

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  Reply # 307446 15-Mar-2010 16:59
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When I was using a Vodafone UK SIM card during the middle of last year, I found that TXT messages sent by me were not received by a customer of Rogers Wireless in Canada.  I could call his phone, but not TXT to it.  And yet Vodafone UK were happily charging me for the TXT messages.

Sounds like a similar situation to what you are describing here.





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  Reply # 307450 15-Mar-2010 17:05
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Dangermouse: Proof that Vodafone Ireland aren't forwarding txts to 2degrees? Or proof of the reason why?

That txts from Vodafone Ireland aren't reaching 2degrees mobiles here is simply a fact.

That it's because Vodafone Ireland aren't forwarding them? My only proof is that that is what 2degrees tell me is happening when I enquire as to why I'm not receiving SMSs from family and friends at home, that they have been unable to enter into a reciprocal agreement with Vodafone Ireland/UK.

Would be very interested to hear other theories?


Commerical agreements have to be in place 2D is a new carrier these agreements take time

John

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  Reply # 307451 15-Mar-2010 17:08

Hi there,

this has nothing to do with Vodafone not forwarding TXTs on to Two Degrees customers and everything to do with Two Degrees not having an agreement with Vodafone UK or Ireland.

This has nothing to do with Vodafone NZ in the slightest.

Paul




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  Reply # 307452 15-Mar-2010 17:08
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SMS interconnects can be complex with many different methods of interconnection. There are direct connects between networks and also roaming hubs depending on the carrier. In many cases a commercial agreement is required to deliver SMS's between networks. These agreements can cover issues such as the number of messages and possibly pricing - if no such agreements occured there would be nothing to stop a customer spamming customers on a foreign network.

2degrees have chosen to only enter into commercial SMS agreements with a handful of operators I believe using Sybase for their roaming and SMS.

The reasons for this not working are purely commercial, 2degrees have said that they don't have an agreement which is why the messags are not delivered. It is certainly nothing to do with two other Vodafone networks trying to protect Vodafone NZ as you seem to think.



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  Reply # 307688 16-Mar-2010 09:48
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Thanks for taking the time to respond with that info; as for getting my facts straight, good luck to anyone who tries to get a straight answer out of any of these people – this is why we have to turn to the interweb.

 

So, what you’re saying is that, for reasons best known to themselves, 2degrees have chosen not to enter into an agreement for 2 way SMS messaging with Vodafone Ireland/UK? Hmmm, pardon my naivety but isn’t that be a bit odd? They have no problem with the other three Irish telecoms, just Vodafone (the only one, funnily enough, to have a sister operator in NZ). Not having a two way agreement with Vodafone Ireland/UK is nuts for 2G (I would have thought this would be top priority) and, and this is just my opinion, I suggest that if there was anything they could do about it it might have happened by now? Please note I never said anything about Vodafone NZ.

 

If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck…

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  Reply # 307692 16-Mar-2010 09:56

I think you need to re-read your original post. Yes, you mention Vodafone and Vodafone NZ in particular.

The company that hasn't signed the deal is Two Degrees. You'd have to ask them why they haven't. Their deal with the othe Irish carriers may well be part of the deal they have with their SMS hub provider as Steve suggests. I don't know as I don't work for 2D.

I can assure you this has nothing to do with any conspiracy theory you've put forward.

Paul




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  Reply # 307693 16-Mar-2010 09:59
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Dangermouse: Thanks for taking the time to respond with that info; as for getting my facts straight, good luck to anyone who tries to get a straight answer out of any of these people – this is why we have to turn to the interweb.

 

So, what you’re saying is that, for reasons best known to themselves, 2degrees have chosen not to enter into an agreement for 2 way SMS messaging with Vodafone Ireland/UK? Hmmm, pardon my naivety but isn’t that be a bit odd? They have no problem with the other three Irish telecoms, just Vodafone (the only one, funnily enough, to have a sister operator in NZ). Not having a two way agreement with Vodafone Ireland/UK is nuts for 2G (I would have thought this would be top priority) and, and this is just my opinion, I suggest that if there was anything they could do about it it might have happened by now? Please note I never said anything about Vodafone NZ.

 

If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck…



You made the accusation that Vodafone UK and Vodafone IE were presumably doing this to protect the interests of Vodafone NZ. This is a statement that is clearly incorrect.

2degrees at presently only have interconnection agreements with a very small number of operators compared to both Vodafone and Telecom. Each network typically requires an agreement or a contract with a roaming hub to deliver these messages. My understanding right now is that 2degrees had approached both Vodafone UK and Vodafone Ireland to enter into a commercial agreement but have been unable to agree on terms to make this a reality.



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  Reply # 307708 16-Mar-2010 10:29
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So, it's 2D that are dragging the chain here, and not Vodafone? That's kinda directly contrary to what they're saying. No surprises there then. Yes, I can see why 2D would be reluctant to seal a deal here asap.

2D tell me "Thanks for getting back to us. We can appreciate your frustration with this and wish we had an ETA on when it will be resolved but Vodafone are in no rush to help customers on another network.   Like I said its top of our priority list to get this fixed for our customers as we realise it’s affecting their friends and family abroad."

Pity 2D don't have a Head of Corporate Communications on here to set the record straight.

I'm going to have to switch to Telecom...

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  Reply # 307710 16-Mar-2010 10:33
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Dangermouse: So, it's 2D that are dragging the chain here, and not Vodafone? That's kinda directly contrary to what they're saying. No surprises there then. Yes, I can see why 2D would be reluctant to seal a deal here asap.


Read sbiddle's post again: "My understanding right now is that 2degrees had approached both Vodafone UK and Vodafone Ireland to enter into a commercial agreement but have been unable to agree on terms to make this a reality."

He didn't say 2D is dragging. He's saying they have been unable to agree on terms. It could be for a variety of reasons - not necessarily "dragging".

You started accusing Vodafone UK/Ireland of conspiracy "
to protect the interests of Vodafone NZ". Then you switched your aim to 2D.

In the world of telecommunications, strange as it seems, there are lots of complicated negotiations. It's not as simple as plugging a cable to the wall and having Internet services flowing down the pipe.
















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  Reply # 307711 16-Mar-2010 10:37
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Dangermouse: So, it's 2D that are dragging the chain here, and not Vodafone? That's kinda directly contrary to what they're saying. No surprises there then. Yes, I can see why 2D would be reluctant to seal a deal here asap.

Pity 2D don't have a Head of Corporate Communications to set the record straight.

I'm going to have to switch to Telecom...


I've never said anywhere that Vodafone UK or Vodafone Ireland are blameless. I've simply said that there is no conspiracy theory here like you are claiming.

Likeswise I don't see 2degrees blaming Vodafone in their comments either that you have posted - they have simply said they have no agreement which is why SMS does not work.

There are lots of other people affected by their lack of SMS interconnects, not just Vodafone UK and Vodafone IE customers. They only support SMS to the top 21 desinations, that's a around 180 less than Vodafone or Telecom. As 2degrees grow they are certain to grow this list considerably.

2degrees do follow threads on Geekzone and post regularly.

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  Reply # 307720 16-Mar-2010 10:49
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sbiddle: You made the accusation that Vodafone UK and Vodafone IE were presumably doing this to protect the interests of Vodafone NZ. This is a statement that is clearly incorrect.


It would be impossible to tell if this was incorrect without a statement from Vodfone UK or Ireland, then again would they admit it if that was the case anyway?



2degrees at presently only have interconnection agreements with a very small number of operators compared to both Vodafone and Telecom. Each network typically requires an agreement or a contract with a roaming hub to deliver these messages. My understanding right now is that 2degrees had approached both Vodafone UK and Vodafone Ireland to enter into a commercial agreement but have been unable to agree on terms to make this a reality.


So the original post is correct, 2degrees have attempted to allow users to recieve SMS from Vodafone UK and Ireland, however for some reason Vodafone has yet to agree to do so. Therefore the message of the original post is still valid, to be able to SMS both ways they will need to put pressure on Vodafone UK and Ireland.




Any posts are personal comments and not that of my employer

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