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  Reply # 309096 19-Mar-2010 12:54

sbiddle:
SaltyNZ:
johnr:
Could you attach though??


No-one will be able to attach until we open up 3G service to ordinary subscribers.


Can roaming SIM's still attach? I know they could and I'd been meaning to do a brief speedtest!


lol, roam, how much will the data be $10/meg? 

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  Reply # 309137 19-Mar-2010 14:00
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Stuve:
lol, roam, how much will the data be $10/meg? 


I doubt it would be cheap.

More importantly you can't really use an international roaming SIM as a true indicator of how our network performs. Without writing another 5-post monster, there are 2 elements required for packet data, the SGSN and the GGSN.

You always use your local SGSN - so, whenever logged into 2degrees as a 2degrees user OR an inbound roamer, you use the 2degrees SGSN.

However, you use your home network GGSN. And that is in another country, linked to us via GRX.

If you speedtest against iHug in Auckland using, say, an Orange UK SIM, all your data is backhauled from Auckland, to the UK, and then back to Auckland again to get to iHug, and then back to the UK and back to Auckland to return to your handset.

That won't really give you a great indication of how well our network will really perform for 2degrees subscribers.




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.




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  Reply # 309146 19-Mar-2010 14:27

SaltyNZ:
Stuve:
lol, roam, how much will the data be $10/meg? 


I doubt it would be cheap.

More importantly you can't really use an international roaming SIM as a true indicator of how our network performs. Without writing another 5-post monster, there are 2 elements required for packet data, the SGSN and the GGSN.

You always use your local SGSN - so, whenever logged into 2degrees as a 2degrees user OR an inbound roamer, you use the 2degrees SGSN.

However, you use your home network GGSN. And that is in another country, linked to us via GRX.

If you speedtest against iHug in Auckland using, say, an Orange UK SIM, all your data is backhauled from Auckland, to the UK, and then back to Auckland again to get to iHug, and then back to the UK and back to Auckland to return to your handset.

That won't really give you a great indication of how well our network will really perform for 2degrees subscribers.


What a waste of data... I didn't realise it was like that. I would have thought the data would stay within the country and the billing info would be sent to the home network rather than that kind of mess. 

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  Reply # 309148 19-Mar-2010 14:37
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Stuve:
What a waste of data... I didn't realise it was like that. I would have thought the data would stay within the country and the billing info would be sent to the home network rather than that kind of mess. 


It's done that way because of the split in duties between SGSN and GGSN. The SGSN looks after the mobile network; the GGSN looks after the packet networks.

Now, it's possible to have private APNs - big corporates are offered this service by Vodafone and presumably Telecom; the GGSN has a private link of some sort - Frame Relay, carrier ethernet, site to site VPN or whatever - and when a handset connects to the private APN it appears as if it is on the corporate's local network. It gets an IP address from the company's range, the company's DNS addresses etc. Before client VPN software was common this was the best way to get a secure packet data connection back to the office.

Since only one GGSN can have the private connection to the company, the architecture is that all IP data goes back to the home GGSN.

As far as the billing data goes, that can be done. CAMEL Phase 3 support on the SGSN allows realtime billing. However, most SGSNs don't support CAP3 because it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. No one uses CAP3 for charging because all traffic goes back to the home GGSN, so you can control everything there regardless of CAMEL support in the VPLMN.

But because no-one demands CAMEL support in the VPLMN, no-one bothers to buy it.

The upshot is that in practice most networks, including us, use the DIAMETER Credit Control Application in the GGSN for realtime billing.




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  Reply # 309173 19-Mar-2010 15:25
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Stuve:
sbiddle:
SaltyNZ:
johnr:
Could you attach though??


No-one will be able to attach until we open up 3G service to ordinary subscribers.


Can roaming SIM's still attach? I know they could and I'd been meaning to do a brief speedtest!


lol, roam, how much will the data be $10/meg? 


As low as $2.13 per MB if I wanted to top up my o2 SIM with £50 which gives 50MB of data anywhere in the world.

People elsewhere in the world pay a lot less than us here in NZ for global data roaming! I can use my Vodafone UK SIM here in NZ and pay just on NZ$30 and get 25MB of data per day.


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  Reply # 309432 20-Mar-2010 20:27
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What I want to know is what frequencies the network will be available on! I know 2100 is out there but I'm almost certain they aren't going to roll out their own *nationwide 2100* network. Either it would cost too much or coverage would be compromised...

I think it is highly likely that they will launch with their own 2100MHz network in areas with dense population. Whether they have a rural network at launch is more questionable. If they do, I'm picking it will initially be through a service agreement with Vodafone that would allow them to use VF's 900MHz network. They may even make an agreement to use VF's 2100 3G network in certain areas if they have urban coverage holes at launch. I'd expect the urban holes to be filled over the next 6-12 months... Longer term is less clear.

Thoughts anyone? I'm particularly interested in the rural coverage issue. Could 2d get away with a service agreement with either Telecom or Vodafone for long term rural 3G coverage or would this be too costly? If too costly, would they build their own network at all, or would they be an urban-only carrier? Also, do you think there is any chance they would make any form of 3G service agreement with Telecom?

[Edit: I guess a lot depends on what spectrum they own. Could anyone a table of who owns what it is used for when it comes to cellphone spectrum?]

[Edit 2: How much coverage does 80 sites indicate?]



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  Reply # 309433 20-Mar-2010 20:44

mm1352000: What I want to know is what frequencies the network will be available on! I know 2100 is out there but I'm almost certain they aren't going to roll out their own *nationwide 2100* network. Either it would cost too much or coverage would be compromised...

I think it is highly likely that they will launch with their own 2100MHz network in areas with dense population. Whether they have a rural network at launch is more questionable. If they do, I'm picking it will initially be through a service agreement with Vodafone that would allow them to use VF's 900MHz network. They may even make an agreement to use VF's 2100 3G network in certain areas if they have urban coverage holes at launch. I'd expect the urban holes to be filled over the next 6-12 months... Longer term is less clear.

Thoughts anyone? I'm particularly interested in the rural coverage issue. Could 2d get away with a service agreement with either Telecom or Vodafone for long term rural 3G coverage or would this be too costly? If too costly, would they build their own network at all, or would they be an urban-only carrier? Also, do you think there is any chance they would make any form of 3G service agreement with Telecom?

[Edit: I guess a lot depends on what spectrum they own. Could anyone a table of who owns what it is used for when it comes to cellphone spectrum?]

They will use 900/2100mhz freq. Within their own coverage areas it will be 2100, outside of this on Vodafone it is less clear what will happen as voda have 900/2100... 

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  Reply # 309453 20-Mar-2010 22:45
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johnr:
SaltyNZ:
johnr:
SaltyNZ:
johnr:
Could you attach though??


No-one will be able to attach until we open up 3G service to ordinary subscribers.


Would you like some help testing??


Sure, send me your CV. :-)


My manager hates these type of messages


You know how you could freak out most of vodafone staff? Ask for the morning off for an interview ;)




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  Reply # 309482 21-Mar-2010 08:40
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richms:
You know how you could freak out most of vodafone staff? Ask for the morning off for an interview ;)


It works much better if you turn up to work in a suit, and then disappear for a couple of hours for a "meeting".




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  Reply # 310028 23-Mar-2010 02:05
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Can 2d get roming to telecom network too. So we can pick want network works best. It be cool




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  Reply # 310031 23-Mar-2010 03:24
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When we visited 2degrees last year they indicated that at 3G launch (which was targeted for January 2010) there would be 3G "everywhere", either off 2degrees towers or roaming on Vodafone.

There won't be a roaming agreement with Telecom, that would require users to have 850MHz UMTS handsets which most if not all of 2degrees aren't . . .

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  Reply # 310037 23-Mar-2010 06:45
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scottjpalmer:
There won't be a roaming agreement with Telecom, that would require users to have 850MHz UMTS handsets which most if not all of 2degrees aren't . . .


Of all the things that need to be done to open roaming, obtaining an 850MHz handset rates about a 1/10 for difficulty. :-)




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  Reply # 310092 23-Mar-2010 10:07
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Does anybody know approximately what spectrum 2d, VF and Tcom own?



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  Reply # 310096 23-Mar-2010 10:14

mm1352000: Does anybody know approximately what spectrum 2d, VF and Tcom own?


Yup 

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  Reply # 310112 23-Mar-2010 10:48
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mm1352000: Does anybody know approximately what spectrum 2d, VF and Tcom own?


For sure

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