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  Reply # 744078 13-Jan-2013 14:28
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oneroom: Dude I was using my windows phone when writing my messages.

Go Figure.


I don't think you got the point of his reply !  

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  Reply # 744752 14-Jan-2013 19:54
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oneroom: Dude I was using my windows phone when writing my messages.

Go Figure.


Can you send me your CV? I want to make sure I never hire you!

Good Grief! What is the world coming to? The advice you were just given was excellent and you just made sure no-one spends any additional time helping you.

BDFL - Memuneh
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Reply # 744763 14-Jan-2013 20:32
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networkn:
oneroom: Dude I was using my windows phone when writing my messages.

Go Figure.


Can you send me your CV? I want to make sure I never hire you!



ROFL




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  Reply # 744769 14-Jan-2013 20:59
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I think the answer should be marked as the one Zombonz gave :)

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  Reply # 744770 14-Jan-2013 21:06
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It seems to be a "youth of today" thing that they expect to go from help desk to senior architect in a couple of years. I've seen it a lot over the years when a I go through performance meetings with people. They really don't get that there is more to a senior position then having an MCSE and knowing how to build a server.

There are many aspects of IT that you can only learn by experiencing them, especially the stuff that goes wrong. These experiences are not going to happen in a 2-3 year period, they happen in 7-10 years.

When the proverbial hits the fan I would rather have someone with 10 years experience with me then a young hotshot who thinks they know it all after a couple of years. 

And just to agree with what others have said, the soft skills required for a senior position are a huge part of the job and I myself have seen many who will not move up the ranks as they just do not have the soft skills required. For the most part they either can't create a readable document or are unable to front a meeting and drive a conversation.




When you live your life on Twitter and Facebook, and are only friends with like minded people on Twitter and Facebook, you are not living in the real world. You are living in a narcissistic echo chamber.

 


My thoughts are my own and are in no way representative of my employer.


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  Reply # 744807 14-Jan-2013 22:32
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geekiegeek: It seems to be a "youth of today" thing that they expect to go from help desk to senior architect in a couple of years. I've seen it a lot over the years when a I go through performance meetings with people. They really don't get that there is more to a senior position then having an MCSE and knowing how to build a server.


Yup seen it often too unfortunately - it is definitely a GenY thing, or Gen Yner as I have seen written... lol
It is a shame, but probably a result of our instant gratification society. On the plus side, at least one (I hope) got the message!




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  Reply # 744832 15-Jan-2013 00:16
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Experience do not mean anything

It is what you did in your experience that matters,

There is a huge difference between someone doing desktop support for 10 years and a person doing system administration for 5 years.

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Reply # 744851 15-Jan-2013 08:12
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oneroom: Experience do not mean anything

It is what you did in your experience that matters,

There is a huge difference between someone doing desktop support for 10 years and a person doing system administration for 5 years.


Ok, maybe not...

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  Reply # 744852 15-Jan-2013 08:12
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oneroom: Experience do not mean anything

It is what you did in your experience that matters,

There is a huge difference between someone doing desktop support for 10 years and a person doing system administration for 5 years.


OK .. how about a hypothetical example ... you require brain surgery and have a choice of surgeons, surgeon #1 has has 20 years of experience.  Surgeon #2 has done 3 years of experience and a hot shot "can do" attitude!

Which surgeon are you going to choose ?

It takes more than becoming a Microsoft Certified Solitaire Expert to make it in the IT world I'm afraid, previous posters have mentioned soft skills, do you know what they are on about ?

Oh and I too would like your CV .. for reference .... 



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  Reply # 744855 15-Jan-2013 08:24
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geekiegeek: It seems to be a "youth of today" thing that they expect to go from help desk to senior architect in a couple of years. I've seen it a lot over the years when a I go through performance meetings with people. They really don't get that there is more to a senior position then having an MCSE and knowing how to build a server.

There are many aspects of IT that you can only learn by experiencing them, especially the stuff that goes wrong. These experiences are not going to happen in a 2-3 year period, they happen in 7-10 years.

When the proverbial hits the fan I would rather have someone with 10 years experience with me then a young hotshot who thinks they know it all after a couple of years. 

And just to agree with what others have said, the soft skills required for a senior position are a huge part of the job and I myself have seen many who will not move up the ranks as they just do not have the soft skills required. For the most part they either can't create a readable document or are unable to front a meeting and drive a conversation.


I understand what you're talking about in terms of soft skills and experience, however I think that it doesn't necessarily require a person to have 10 years experience - some people gain experience much faster or have innate talent. 

One of my friends is highly intelligent, motivated and has both technical and soft skills. He is now in a technology architect role even though he has only had around 5-6 years experience across multiple other roles. 

I don't think its very fair to paint all of 'Generation Y' with the same brush. Some of just believe that it's more about skill and effort than any particular amount of 'time served'. 




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  Reply # 744858 15-Jan-2013 08:33
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I don't doubt that there are some young bright people out there working their way up the ranks, however what I've noticed is that the ones that don't have much experience, and who are given a chance in a role above their skill level, all have rather large gaps in their fundamental IT skills which results in much hand holding and baby sitting.

I'm talking from first hand experience, I've just been extremely fortunate to have had seasoned seniors willing to mentor me and fill in the gaps, but unfortunately all the gaps take time to fill, there is no single cert you can get which covers them all, only real world experience and lots of it.

Final comment, just because you know your trade today doesn't mean you'll easily get a new flashy high paid job, employers are after people with knowledge of past, present and to a degree future up and coming technologies so never get comfortable with your skills, keep training.

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  Reply # 744865 15-Jan-2013 08:54
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Mark: OK .. how about a hypothetical example ... you require brain surgery and have a choice of surgeons, surgeon #1 has has 20 years of experience.  Surgeon #2 has done 3 years of experience and a hot shot "can do" attitude!


I think medical field is slightly different and not comparable in this case. I understand what are you getting at but Surgeon 2 could be more familiar with newer technique/approach, tools and concept.





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  Reply # 744879 15-Jan-2013 09:28
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oneroom: Dude I was using my windows phone when writing my messages.

Go Figure.


Someone took time out of their day to give you some valuable and constructive advice and this is how you reply?

I always take into account the audience I'm communicating with regardless of the device I'm using.

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  Reply # 744883 15-Jan-2013 09:42
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insane: I don't doubt that there are some young bright people out there working their way up the ranks, however what I've noticed is that the ones that don't have much experience, and who are given a chance in a role above their skill level, all have rather large gaps in their fundamental IT skills which results in much hand holding and baby sitting.

I'm talking from first hand experience, I've just been extremely fortunate to have had seasoned seniors willing to mentor me and fill in the gaps, but unfortunately all the gaps take time to fill, there is no single cert you can get which covers them all, only real world experience and lots of it.

Final comment, just because you know your trade today doesn't mean you'll easily get a new flashy high paid job, employers are after people with knowledge of past, present and to a degree future up and coming technologies so never get comfortable with your skills, keep training.


I definitely agree with you, certificates or other formal training only make up about 10% of your learning. Some people learn on the job a lot quicker than others however. I think we should all strive to be constantly learning and improving. It is disappointing that a lot of people think that a high paying job should be handed to them without earning it. I do think that earning it doesn't necessarily have a time constraint, its more about effort and skill with some real experience as a base for that.

I'm currently in a Business Analyst role with a fairly good salary despite having graduated in 2009 and I'm now gaining leadership experience to apply for a more senior role within my organisation. Personally I don't expect to be handed anything, nor have I been - I have found that being a hard worker and always pushing the boundaries of my skills has led to many new opportunities and recognition for my skill. 




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  Reply # 744884 15-Jan-2013 09:44
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lokhor:
insane: I don't doubt that there are some young bright people out there working their way up the ranks, however what I've noticed is that the ones that don't have much experience, and who are given a chance in a role above their skill level, all have rather large gaps in their fundamental IT skills which results in much hand holding and baby sitting.

I'm talking from first hand experience, I've just been extremely fortunate to have had seasoned seniors willing to mentor me and fill in the gaps, but unfortunately all the gaps take time to fill, there is no single cert you can get which covers them all, only real world experience and lots of it.

Final comment, just because you know your trade today doesn't mean you'll easily get a new flashy high paid job, employers are after people with knowledge of past, present and to a degree future up and coming technologies so never get comfortable with your skills, keep training.


I definitely agree with you, certificates or other formal training only make up about 10% of your learning. Some people learn on the job a lot quicker than others however. I think we should all strive to be constantly learning and improving. It is disappointing that a lot of people think that a high paying job should be handed to them without earning it. I do think that earning it doesn't necessarily have a time constraint, its more about effort and skill with some real experience as a base for that.

I'm currently in a Business Analyst role with a fairly good salary despite having graduated in 2009 and I'm now gaining leadership experience to apply for a more senior role within my organisation. Personally I don't expect to be handed anything, nor have I been - I have found that being a hard worker and always pushing the boundaries of my skills has led to many new opportunities and recognition for my skill. 


Certifications can demonstrate something fairly important that isn't anything to do with the knowledge gained, and that is that you can study and learn in a structured environment, and that you can retain information and handle some pressure. 

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