Are cloud-dwellers idiots?

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#1205151 28-Dec-2014 21:16

Rikkitic:
timmmay: Sony was a traditional corporate hack I think, nothing cloud related. Haven't read all the stories though.

My point was really that nothing connected to the Internet is secure, regardless of claims. Cloud storage is connected to the Internet. Ipso facto.

Maybe nothing is perfectly secure, but that's mostly because people require convenience. Systems can be made very very secure using techniques like encryption with good key control and two factor authentication. Few people use them well, and social engineering can circumvent security if the systems aren't set up right.

I'm a certified Amazon cloud architect, know a thing or two in this area. Hard to write much on phone though.

One system I'm designing that will handle sensitive data has an air gap - ie not connected to internet. Not necessary as I could secure it other ways but it's easier, less testing required in some ways.

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DimasikTurbo

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#1205152 28-Dec-2014 21:23

KiwiNZ: My email is cloud, I use Cloud Office Apps, I am currently using about 3.5 terabytes of could storage which is growing rapidly.
I use cloud as my off site back up. Cloud is not a fad.

May I ask what kind of data you store in 3.5 tb?

Rikkitic

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#1205154 28-Dec-2014 21:32

timmmay: One system I'm designing that will handle sensitive data has an air gap - ie not connected to internet. Not necessary as I could secure it other ways but it's easier, less testing required in some ways.

I am not a qualified expert in anything but I did come up with the air gap idea several years ago. I run multiple desktops (I said I was old-fashioned) so I put everything important to me on one of them and keep it isolated from everything else. The only point of connection is a USB switch I made (I couldn't find a commercial one so I manufactured my own). I keep one flash drive in that to switch between computers and use it when I have to transfer anything. Not exactly high tech but it works well. And yes, I know the flash drive is a weak point but it is the only one so I can allow for that. It has served me well for many years and I have never been infected with anything. No, of course I don't know that for certain but I have lots of checks and the probability is high.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

richms

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#1205156 28-Dec-2014 21:35

I would sooner trust a large company with a security team to maintain a secure place for stuff then a store-bought and seldom/never updated router/nas exposing my stuff to the internet with minimal protection and portfowards or upnp to make it accessable.

Richard rich.ms

khull

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#1205157 28-Dec-2014 21:36

Rikkitic:

I have to ask, why would anyone in their right mind want to depend on cloud computing for anything?

I think there is a misconception of what the cloud actually is by a lot of people - it is not just being charged for storage space in the sky nor is it just hardware provisioning like what people might think EC2 is. In reality any computing model that consumes and deliver services online is considered cloud and you'd be surprised what fits that.

Cloud computing as a service focuses on satisfying a need and not having to worry about maintenance of an IT system (even if it is a personal need). Given that you consider yourself as 'old fashioned' I somehow wonder if the delivery messages have been lost as it serves to abstract away the difficulties of having to set up infrastructure, hardware, software by yourself.

Lastly if control is what you seek e.g. for hosting, there are organisations out there that will actually offer you control right down to knowing/changing individual component (like a memory module or MAC address) and where it is hosted, including the server rack location. (it just won't be cheap)

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#1205160 28-Dec-2014 21:43

khull:
Rikkitic:

I have to ask, why would anyone in their right mind want to depend on cloud computing for anything?

I think there is a misconception of what the cloud actually is by a lot of people - it is not just being charged for storage space in the sky nor is it just hardware provisioning like what people might think EC2 is. In reality any computing model that consumes and deliver services online is considered cloud and you'd be surprised what fits that.

Cloud computing as a service focuses on satisfying a need and not having to worry about maintenance of an IT system (even if it is a personal need). Given that you consider yourself as 'old fashioned' I somehow wonder if the delivery messages have been lost as it serves to abstract away the difficulties of having to set up infrastructure, hardware, software by yourself

Now THAT is an answer.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#1205165 28-Dec-2014 22:04

richms: I would sooner trust a large company with a security team to maintain a secure place for stuff then a store-bought and seldom/never updated router/nas exposing my stuff to the internet with minimal protection and portfowards or upnp to make it accessable.

Trust no one ;p
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Geektastic

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#1205198 28-Dec-2014 23:36

I presume floppy disks were a fad at one stage...!

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#1205201 28-Dec-2014 23:46

Like many here, I use both.

Cloud can make things pleasantly easy - for example, Apple's fairly seamless merging of my stuff over my phone, laptop and desktop with precisely no input from me. Very useful not to have to sync stuff with cables etc every day.

There are some documents I won't put up there and they reside on my personal storage - one aspect of which is an IoSafe fireproof, floodproof and crushproof disk. Another is encrypted 'whole machine' off site (out of NZ) backups courtesy of Backblaze and another is Apple Time Machine.

You can only do what you can do - we are all limited by resources, be they bandwidth, internet speed or spare IT budget for new kit. The more places you can find to put stuff, the more chance you have of getting it back.

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#1205204 28-Dec-2014 23:52

there are many ways of data insecurity when stored at home
- fire
- theft
- flood
- earthquake
- drive failure
- etc ...

MikeB4

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#1205230 29-Dec-2014 07:39

DimasikTurbo:
KiwiNZ: My email is cloud, I use Cloud Office Apps, I am currently using about 3.5 terabytes of could storage which is growing rapidly.
I use cloud as my off site back up. Cloud is not a fad.

May I ask what kind of data you store in 3.5 tb?

Digital photos, home videos, a lot of written material especially about photos. Family records, business material etc etc etc.

Each of my PC's and related data are backed up to cloud as well as disc. The cloud storage provides the off site part of the back up best practice.

markl

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#1205338 29-Dec-2014 10:19

So, firstly "Gamers were unable to try out their new Christmas toys for two days" - this is not strictly true, as I understand it. You couldn't access PSN and XBox Live but those are not essential for playing games, if I'm correct.

Also, you mention that you are "distrustful of fads and I prefer the tried and true over the latest and greatest." To that I ask you how does something *become* tried and true? EVERYTHING was a new "fad" at some point. Without early adopters to take these things on and bear any pain that might be there early on, these things become more reliable over time. I fully understand you not wanting to be an early adopter - not everyone can take on the risk that things may not work quite as well as they should, or the chance that data goes missing or services are unavailable for a short time. That's fine. However, I'd also point out that some of these "cloud" services have well and truly been around long enough to count as "tried and true"....gmail, outlook.com, Amazon, google apps, to name only a very few. Give it a go. If you're worried at all then keep backups (there are actually cloud services for this that could be counted as mature now too), and you'll be sweet.

hangon

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#1205400 29-Dec-2014 11:34

Rikkitic:
One of the fads I distrust is the movement to cloud computing. I like physical possession. I enjoy the security of knowing that my data resides securely on a hard drive that belongs to me.

I'd say that's a false sense of security.

The hard drive could give up and any data non recoverable. Or get stolen, burnt, flooded.

I suppose it depends on what kind of data we talking about.

For highly sensitive data, I'll probably never put it in the cloud, even if encrypted. But I'm not gonna rely on a single copy on a hard drive either.

But for snap shot photos, you can beat that all the photos taken by multiple devices are readily available to view on any of them.

richms

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#1205402 29-Dec-2014 11:35

markl: So, firstly "Gamers were unable to try out their new Christmas toys for two days" - this is not strictly true, as I understand it. You couldn't access PSN and XBox Live but those are not essential for playing games, if I'm correct.

The bundled games in many cases were downloads, not physical copies, the consoles need to be updated before they will run games often, so without PSN/XBL to get the update the game wont start if you have it on a disc anyway.

Multiplayer needs online servers to be up even when the games are hosted by people on consoles.

Even if you have netflix/hulu plus/youtube installed on them, without the service running, the apps dont seem to want to open, so without the XBL or PSN the box is basically useless.

Richard rich.ms

markl

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#1205406 29-Dec-2014 11:50

richms:
markl: So, firstly "Gamers were unable to try out their new Christmas toys for two days" - this is not strictly true, as I understand it. You couldn't access PSN and XBox Live but those are not essential for playing games, if I'm correct.

The bundled games in many cases were downloads, not physical copies, the consoles need to be updated before they will run games often, so without PSN/XBL to get the update the game wont start if you have it on a disc anyway.

Multiplayer needs online servers to be up even when the games are hosted by people on consoles.

Even if you have netflix/hulu plus/youtube installed on them, without the service running, the apps dont seem to want to open, so without the XBL or PSN the box is basically useless.

If a game required an update on day 1 then there are bigger problems with the industry than a bit of temporary downtime for the online services, but I digress. Surely with respect to the updates required, the console tries to check the online service to determine whether an update is required, and if it gets no response, then you're saying the game won't run at all? I'd suggest that is incorrect, though I don't know for sure. I'd have thought that a game would run without updating until the console knows for sure that it actually needs an update.

Granted if the game was bundled as a download then you're screwed, but if it's on disk, I can't see why you wouldn't have been able to play single player in many/most cases.

Regardless, it's inaccurate to suggest that consoles were unusable because the services were offline.

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