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gregmcc
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  #1519258 24-Mar-2016 19:19
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Dynamic:

 

gregmcc: All practicable steps, as set out in health and safety regulations, having a testing and tagging process in effect that is in line with the standard is showing steps are been taken.

 

As far as RCD's go is there anyway anyone (except for a suitability qualified electrician) can determine if a socket they are plugging in to is RCD protected?

 

A quick visit from an electrician will confirm or deny whether the building/floor/office is protected by an RCD.  Retrofitting RCDs will be cheaper than 2 years of tagging (if I remember pricing correctly).

 

 

 

 

For an appliance that stays in a fixed place, lets say the office photocopier or network switch for example, the time between testing and tagging is 5 years, way cheaper than retrofitting RCD's or getting an electrician out to determine if the circuit is on a RCD.

 

Anyone can read a test tag and figure out if it has expired or not, and make the decision to not use the appliance if expired AND REDUCE THE RISK, can that same person figure out if the power outlet is RCD protected or not? (and by the way there are also standards on regular testing of RCD's) AND REDUCE THE RISK? - no they can't.

 

 

 

Most people cannot determine if an outlet is RCD protected, this is why there is testing and tagging to PROVE that at the time of testing it is safe and when it should next be tested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's all about risk management, do the task to the prescribed standard and the risk goes down, do it some other non compliant way and the risk goes up

 

Agreed.  Paying someone to do testing and tagging is a risk-reduction measure, though it does not eliminate the risk.  Other suitable risk-reduction measures that the person implementing is prepared to defend may be suitable as well.

 

I'm a DIY kinda guy.  And I've learned not to accept the word of anyone in sales, including Test & Tag sales people.

 


 
 
 

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gregmcc
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  #1519262 24-Mar-2016 19:23
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xpd:

 

Well, I'm going to keep out of it..... I think its complete BS TBH.....  will leave it up to office management to sort out, Ill let whoever they want into the server room etc and thats it.

 

Seems crazy weve got to dig out everything that plugs in.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are provisions within the standards to tag equipment that cannot be taken out of service, such as items in your server room. If your test and tag person really knows their stuff then this should not be a problem.

 

 


gregmcc
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  #1519265 24-Mar-2016 19:28
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Dynamic:

 

gregmcc: I would be interested in seeing some photo's of your distribution board to support your statement "Our office power is supplied through RCDs.... "

 

RCD protected office

 

 

 

 

Nice photo, I only see 1 RCD, not RCDs, one faulty untested appliance plugged in takes out your whole office!......not good!

 

Having the A/C on the RCD is also not a good idea either.

 

 

 

 




gregmcc
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  #1519268 24-Mar-2016 19:36
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gregmcc:

 

Dynamic:

 

gregmcc: I would be interested in seeing some photo's of your distribution board to support your statement "Our office power is supplied through RCDs.... "

 

RCD protected office

 

 

 

 

Nice photo, I only see 1 RCD, not RCDs, one faulty untested appliance plugged in takes out your whole office!......not good!

 

Having the A/C on the RCD is also not a good idea either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just zoomed up on the RCD, can't tell if it's an RCCB or RCBO, either way you have a problem.

 

1) If it's a RCCB then you could quite easily exceed the 40A current carrying capacity and it could burn out.

 

2) If it's a RCBO then it trips above 40A so it could be prone to nuisance trips when/if there are high power usage on down stream circuits.

 

situation 1) is non compliant and a possible fire hazard, situation 2) is compliant by has a good potential to be an annoyance.

 

 

 

 


Dynamic
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  #1519279 24-Mar-2016 20:22
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Thanks for your thoughts. It has been signed off by one professional and reviewed by another, and there have been no annoying trips. I'm happy.




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raytaylor
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  #1519573 25-Mar-2016 11:46
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Wouldnt it be required as part of your insurance contract?





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Aaroona
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  #1519736 25-Mar-2016 16:58
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We recently had our office tested and tagged (large insurance company). Though they didn't go into testings servers or anything.

 

 

 

 




mdooher
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  #1520843 28-Mar-2016 18:51
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gregmcc:

 

 

 

As far as RCD's go is there anyway anyone (except for a suitability qualified electrician) can determine if a socket they are plugging in to is RCD protected?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Switch off the RCD.. if the socket outlet loses power it is protected by the RCD... It doesn't take an electrician to work that one out.





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mdooher
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  #1520869 28-Mar-2016 19:10
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gregmcc:

 

 

 

1) If it's a RCCB then you could quite easily exceed the 40A current carrying capacity and it could burn out.

 

2) If it's a RCBO then it trips above 40A so it could be prone to nuisance trips when/if there are high power usage on down stream circuits.

 

situation 1) is non compliant and a possible fire hazard, situation 2) is compliant by has a good potential to be an annoyance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rubbish, most (not all)RCCBs are rated at 40A and I bet at some time you have installed one of them to protect multiple 20A and 10A  subcircuits.

 

There are many methods of calculating maximum demand for office space, any one of them could have been used and easily result in a value below 40A for the RCD protected circuits.





Matthew


gregmcc
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  #1521965 29-Mar-2016 05:58
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mdooher:

 

gregmcc:

 

 

 

1) If it's a RCCB then you could quite easily exceed the 40A current carrying capacity and it could burn out.

 

2) If it's a RCBO then it trips above 40A so it could be prone to nuisance trips when/if there are high power usage on down stream circuits.

 

situation 1) is non compliant and a possible fire hazard, situation 2) is compliant by has a good potential to be an annoyance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rubbish, most (not all)RCCBs are rated at 40A and I bet at some time you have installed one of them to protect multiple 20A and 10A  subcircuits.

 

There are many methods of calculating maximum demand for office space, any one of them could have been used and easily result in a value below 40A for the RCD protected circuits.

 

 

 

 

Do your maximum demand sums, remembering this is an office, 4 x 20A power circuits, 2 x 16a lights circuits, 1 20a A/C, way more than the 40A rating of the RCD.

 

 

 

the ONLY way to do the maximum demand sums is the way the AS/NZS 3000 states,

 

 

 

Appendix C - non domestic electrical installations

 

Lighting, full load connected

 

Power 1000W for 1st outlet, plus 750W per socket

 

Heating, 75% of full current rating


xpd

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  #1522110 29-Mar-2016 10:47
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Just been told that we're going ahead with it, and that they'll probably want every AC adaptor made available etc.... joy. This is going to do my head in....... must remember hip flask.... :D

 

 

 

 





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mdooher
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  #1522141 29-Mar-2016 11:26
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gregmcc:

 

mdooher:

 

gregmcc:

 

 

 

1) If it's a RCCB then you could quite easily exceed the 40A current carrying capacity and it could burn out.

 

2) If it's a RCBO then it trips above 40A so it could be prone to nuisance trips when/if there are high power usage on down stream circuits.

 

situation 1) is non compliant and a possible fire hazard, situation 2) is compliant by has a good potential to be an annoyance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rubbish, most (not all)RCCBs are rated at 40A and I bet at some time you have installed one of them to protect multiple 20A and 10A  subcircuits.

 

There are many methods of calculating maximum demand for office space, any one of them could have been used and easily result in a value below 40A for the RCD protected circuits.

 

 

 

 

Do your maximum demand sums, remembering this is an office, 4 x 20A power circuits, 2 x 16a lights circuits, 1 20a A/C, way more than the 40A rating of the RCD.

 

 

 

the ONLY way to do the maximum demand sums is the way the AS/NZS 3000 states,

 

 

 

Appendix C - non domestic electrical installations

 

Lighting, full load connected

 

Power 1000W for 1st outlet, plus 750W per socket

 

Heating, 75% of full current rating

 

 

Except you cant tell by the image how many circuits are on the RCD.

 

Also you can do maximum demand by:

 

measurement of actual load, or limitation, or even by simply using Part one of AS/NZS 3000 and using any other method you are willing to sign off.

 

 

 

Appendix C of AS/NZS 3000 may be the method most sparkies default to, but it is not the only method.

 

 

 

 





Matthew


gregmcc
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  #1522362 29-Mar-2016 16:50
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mdooher:

 

gregmcc:

 

mdooher:

 

gregmcc:

 

 

 

1) If it's a RCCB then you could quite easily exceed the 40A current carrying capacity and it could burn out.

 

2) If it's a RCBO then it trips above 40A so it could be prone to nuisance trips when/if there are high power usage on down stream circuits.

 

situation 1) is non compliant and a possible fire hazard, situation 2) is compliant by has a good potential to be an annoyance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rubbish, most (not all)RCCBs are rated at 40A and I bet at some time you have installed one of them to protect multiple 20A and 10A  subcircuits.

 

There are many methods of calculating maximum demand for office space, any one of them could have been used and easily result in a value below 40A for the RCD protected circuits.

 

 

 

 

Do your maximum demand sums, remembering this is an office, 4 x 20A power circuits, 2 x 16a lights circuits, 1 20a A/C, way more than the 40A rating of the RCD.

 

 

 

the ONLY way to do the maximum demand sums is the way the AS/NZS 3000 states,

 

 

 

Appendix C - non domestic electrical installations

 

Lighting, full load connected

 

Power 1000W for 1st outlet, plus 750W per socket

 

Heating, 75% of full current rating

 

 

Except you cant tell by the image how many circuits are on the RCD.

 

Also you can do maximum demand by:

 

measurement of actual load, or limitation, or even by simply using Part one of AS/NZS 3000 and using any other method you are willing to sign off.

 

 

 

Appendix C of AS/NZS 3000 may be the method most sparkies default to, but it is not the only method.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The OP has stated that "everything is on RCD's", so it's a safe bet to assume all the sub circuits are on the one RCD

 

And any electrician who doesn't use the table in the standard to calculate maximum demand is asking for trouble should any problems arise

 

 


xpd

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  #1532861 14-Apr-2016 10:16
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What are the requirements for being able to do this myself ? Who do I get "certed" by ? :)

 

What equipment do they actually use to do the testing ? Would it be worth my becoming certified and buying the gear to save the company some $$ ? Look at 200+ computers, monitors, various field gear etc.......

 

 

 

 





       Gavin / xpd / FastRaccoon / Geek of Coastguard New Zealand

 

                      LinkTree -   kiwiblast.co.nz - Lego and more

 

       Support Kiwi music!   The People   Black Smoke Trigger   Like A Storm   Devilskin

 

                                            NZ GEEKS Discord______________________________

 

 


mdooher
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  #1532897 14-Apr-2016 10:51
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xpd:

 

What are the requirements for being able to do this myself ? Who do I get "certed" by ? :)

 

What equipment do they actually use to do the testing ? Would it be worth my becoming certified and buying the gear to save the company some $$ ? Look at 200+ computers, monitors, various field gear etc.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The best way ..

 

Do an EAS (Electrical appliance serviceperson ) course. (1 week plus Saturday exam, or night classes) etco, AUT etc do them

 

you can also do a test and tag course (ie how to operate an portable appliance tester) .. IMHO this really teaches you nothing

 

 

 

legally you don't need to do either as long as the responsible person thinks you are competent (doing a couse helps with that determination)

 

 

 

as far as equipment goes you can do it with an insulation resistance tester (Mega) and multimeter. a portable appliance tester is not necessary.

 

 

 

 





Matthew


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