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  # 1753173 2-Apr-2017 13:05
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TLDR don't expect MACS to be managed as easily as WINDOWS in a WINDOWS SERVER environment


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  # 1753210 2-Apr-2017 15:02
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blackjack17:

 

 

 

So I am just wondering what proportion of the world does use macs?  I have done a bit of googling but haven't really been able to get a clear idea other than windows seem to dominate? but is this changing?

 

 

So removing heat from the "which is best/easier/more functional" debate and returning to the above part of the OP's question - I work in a local government environment and we have 99.9% Windows devices with just a handful of Macs in the "creative" areas. I don't see this changing anytime soon. Probably 10-15% of staff would have a secondary tablet device, of which almost all are iPads.


 
 
 
 


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  # 1753561 3-Apr-2017 09:30
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vulcannz:

 

sir1963:

 

And the same IT people tell the same bulls!t time and time again even after they have been shown they are wrong, in this they are no better than Trump

 

and the Alternative Truth he chooses to believe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Says the guy that cannot tell the difference between a VPN connection and a untrusted CA.

 

 

 

 

I do know the difference. My IPSEC VPN into home uses a self signed certificate, Works VPN requires also needs a certificate (fortinet gateway...ugh), Some of our Citrix sessions also require a certificate, some dont, some are only accessible via a VPN or the end user must be on the local network, some are local network only. I know many of our end users struggle with VPN, VNC, Citrix, be they Windows/OSX/Linux users, and I don't pretend I can answer all their questions over the phone because I KNOW they often don't understand, thats why I get off my butt and go and see them, thats is where the fault is (user or machine). Hell I have even made small movies of my screen to show one staff member who was in the UK what to do because they are a complete bunny, but they were able to sort it once they were shown how, step by step with clear instructions.

 

I also know that overhearing half a conversation between an end user who is not technically inclined, and an unhelpful IT support is not the way to diagnose a problem, nor claim it as proof that Macs are not suitable for a corporate environment. Hell I am working with our IT support over an Application that will not work over VPN, turns out it is not a Mac fault, they only tested from their local machine which did not show the routing problem they had when using the Fortinet VPN gateway (they only use a PPTP  VPN on their PCs to make their life easier), and they only bothered testing with a ping assuming that if they got a response it was OK, it was not that simple.

 

 

 

 


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  # 1753562 3-Apr-2017 09:32
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allan:

 

blackjack17:

 

 

 

So I am just wondering what proportion of the world does use macs?  I have done a bit of googling but haven't really been able to get a clear idea other than windows seem to dominate? but is this changing?

 

 

So removing heat from the "which is best/easier/more functional" debate and returning to the above part of the OP's question - I work in a local government environment and we have 99.9% Windows devices with just a handful of Macs in the "creative" areas. I don't see this changing anytime soon. Probably 10-15% of staff would have a secondary tablet device, of which almost all are iPads.

 

 

 

 

And the next Answer is, anything that kid in Primary/Intermediate school is likely to use will be grossly out of date by the time they are in the workforce, so making a decision based on what "industry uses today" is pointless.


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  # 1753578 3-Apr-2017 10:03
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sir1963:

 

vulcannz:

 

sir1963:

 

And the same IT people tell the same bulls!t time and time again even after they have been shown they are wrong, in this they are no better than Trump

 

and the Alternative Truth he chooses to believe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Says the guy that cannot tell the difference between a VPN connection and a untrusted CA.

 

 

 

 

I do know the difference. My IPSEC VPN into home uses a self signed certificate, Works VPN requires also needs a certificate (fortinet gateway...ugh), Some of our Citrix sessions also require a certificate, some dont, some are only accessible via a VPN or the end user must be on the local network, some are local network only. I know many of our end users struggle with VPN, VNC, Citrix, be they Windows/OSX/Linux users, and I don't pretend I can answer all their questions over the phone because I KNOW they often don't understand, thats why I get off my butt and go and see them, thats is where the fault is (user or machine). Hell I have even made small movies of my screen to show one staff member who was in the UK what to do because they are a complete bunny, but they were able to sort it once they were shown how, step by step with clear instructions.

 

I also know that overhearing half a conversation between an end user who is not technically inclined, and an unhelpful IT support is not the way to diagnose a problem, nor claim it as proof that Macs are not suitable for a corporate environment. Hell I am working with our IT support over an Application that will not work over VPN, turns out it is not a Mac fault, they only tested from their local machine which did not show the routing problem they had when using the Fortinet VPN gateway (they only use a PPTP  VPN on their PCs to make their life easier), and they only bothered testing with a ping assuming that if they got a response it was OK, it was not that simple.

 

 

 

 

 

OK I'm going to be nice and explain the issue for you because you see to have no idea what you are talking about.

 

The lady was using a Citrix portal (HTTPS, for example https://citrix.xyzcorp.co.nz ), the certificate on that portal was issued by Symantec. As in the organization had gone to Symantec and purchased a certificate for citrix.xyzcorp.co.nz .

 

Apple removed a whole bunch of CAs from their Root CA trust list as part of an OS update (known issue see here:  https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/85830/why-is-symantec-verisign-ca-appearing-as-an-invalid-authority ).

 

So this lady would browse to the corporate portal to use their apps/remote desktop/whatever and would get a certificate error preventing her from using it. 

 

See nothing about IPSEC VPNs nor client side certificate authentication.

 

FWIW Macs and VPNs are generally a nightmare. The apple network stack is horrible, and they have a habit of changing the network stack without telling people. This often leads to broken VPN clients while vendors have to play catchup with apple.

 

 




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  # 1753584 3-Apr-2017 10:22
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sir1963:

allan:


blackjack17:


 


So I am just wondering what proportion of the world does use macs?  I have done a bit of googling but haven't really been able to get a clear idea other than windows seem to dominate? but is this changing?



So removing heat from the "which is best/easier/more functional" debate and returning to the above part of the OP's question - I work in a local government environment and we have 99.9% Windows devices with just a handful of Macs in the "creative" areas. I don't see this changing anytime soon. Probably 10-15% of staff would have a secondary tablet device, of which almost all are iPads.



 


And the next Answer is, anything that kid in Primary/Intermediate school is likely to use will be grossly out of date by the time they are in the workforce, so making a decision based on what "industry uses today" is pointless.



We are a secondary school.

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  # 1753603 3-Apr-2017 10:52
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From a hardware perspective .. . macs are a one manufacturer end user device market, hence the most expensive.  They may be good value considering build quality but in absolute terms they cost more per unit.

 

Macs offer less choice in specialist peripheral hardware like sensors and associated software. 

 

I know a lot of researchers who use computers to monitor sensor arrays.  You quickly notice the minority that do use macs have them because they prefer them for everyday tasks and are running windows VMs to undertake specialist tasks like interfacing with their bespoke/specialist external hardware.

 

 





Mike

 
 
 
 


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  # 1753610 3-Apr-2017 11:07
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The easiest way to solve the Pages issue if you haven't already is to offer 'free' Office 365 Education to students which is fully funded by the Ministry for state/state integrated schools and also discounted to private schools. You will probably find the majority of users will switch overnight.

 

 

As for the 'exclusive OS' thing, I would just leave that to the management as it sounds like an Apple and/or Microsoft Education rep has paid a visit. Forcing an iPad Pro/Surface tablet onto students especially in Yr12-13 is the exact opposite of what you aim to do in terms of preparing students for tertiary and BYOD as the minute they leave they will probably stop using it/sell it.

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  # 1753611 3-Apr-2017 11:08
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MikeAqua:

 

From a hardware perspective .. . macs are a one manufacturer end user device market, hence the most expensive.  They may be good value considering build quality but in absolute terms they cost more per unit.

 

 

 

 

I've seen pricing on the Surface Studio....you might modify your reasoning once you see that ;)


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  # 1753687 3-Apr-2017 12:49
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timmmay:

 

To add to my post above... i've worked in a fairly significant number of government departments as a consultant (10?), private businesses small and large, in NZ and overseas. Every single one used PCs and Windows.

 

University seems more like an extension of school. It's different from business / corporate. 

 

Agree - I've worked in a number of financial organisations and more recently across a number of government departments. None of them are iOS - all Windows. 

 

My wife works for a university and they are pure Windows for laptops/desk tops, except some people working in graphic design type roles. But are almost exclusively iPhone and iPad for mobile devices - a couple of rebels with Surface tablets or Android phones, but very, very few.


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  # 1753770 3-Apr-2017 13:39
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andrew027:

 

timmmay:

 

To add to my post above... i've worked in a fairly significant number of government departments as a consultant (10?), private businesses small and large, in NZ and overseas. Every single one used PCs and Windows.

 

University seems more like an extension of school. It's different from business / corporate. 

 

Agree - I've worked in a number of financial organisations and more recently across a number of government departments. None of them are iOS - all Windows. 

 

My wife works for a university and they are pure Windows for laptops/desk tops, except some people working in graphic design type roles. But are almost exclusively iPhone and iPad for mobile devices - a couple of rebels with Surface tablets or Android phones, but very, very few.

 

 

I too work in a University and we have Vets, Physicists, Mathematicians, Statisticians, Chemists, Microbiologists, Engineers, Historians, Businessmen , Bioinformaticians, Photographers, Musicians, Film editors, Geneticists, Psychologists, etc etc etc using Macs, my GP who also does research on Maori health with another University is a Mac user. I know local businessmen who run their business on a Mac and the market share for OSX is growing.

 

We also have those same groups using Windows, some of them use Linux, we have MRIs which run on Linux, X-Ray data collection using Windows, Teaching labs running Macs for data collection and analysis (PowerLab, Vernier, etc), homebew Bluetooth systems for load cells ,we have automatic dispensing machines for Microbiologists that use a Macbook Air to run the software internally, Gene sequencers running Linux, Mass spectrometers running Windows, Centrifuges that use FreeDos as their internal OS, etc. We have a linux box running a 3D printer, Embedded XP for the Mill, a Condor cluster with a mixture of Windows, Linux and OSX nodes. We have people contributing to OSS on all platforms. We have people running Windows on their MacBook Air in the back blocks of Papua New Guinea because of the weight and battery life, but the gene software the had was Windows, we bought MacPros when they first came out as Linux boxes because they were cheaper than PCs at the time, we run VMs too on some machines, I run a Windows 95 VM on my Mac so we can calibrate the laminar flow hoods.

 

iPads are brilliant in PC1,PC2,PC3 labs, no keyboard for contamination, a wipe over with 70% alcohol is all they need, no absorbent surfaces, have service manuals on them as PDFs and still have web access.

 

Used to use a PC running Altium but I have shifted to DipTrace, its far more user friendly for the boards I do and its cross platform. But its solid works all the way for designing 3D objects for printing.

 

My USB logic Analyser is Windows/Linux/OSX compatible as is my Eprom programmer though it works a LOT better in Windows as does my oscilloscope, the web front end is not as good so I run those from a VM at home. I have used my Mac with a CPM emulator to write and compile software for CPM 2.2 machines, it allows multiple instances to run so I can edit in one instance while compiling in another, works quite well. Arduino works well across platforms.

 

Mac Mini at home working as a server for printing, VPN, media server, automatic backup system, etc etc

 

Its all possible, limited only by the imagination of the users.

 

 


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  # 1753834 3-Apr-2017 14:38
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gehenna:

 

MikeAqua:

 

From a hardware perspective .. . macs are a one manufacturer end user device market, hence the most expensive.  They may be good value considering build quality but in absolute terms they cost more per unit.

 

 

 

I've seen pricing on the Surface Studio....you might modify your reasoning once you see that ;)

 

 

And if I said 'firetrucks are red' you could refer me to some yellow ones.

 

 

 

The Surface Studio is in it's own category.  There is no mac equivalent.  The imac is closest but more validly compared to a generic windows all in one.

 

Having just been through BYOD for my son, you can pick any mac in the range and a windows computer is available with equal or better specs, for a lower price.





Mike

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  # 1753855 3-Apr-2017 15:10
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MikeAqua:

 

The Surface Studio is in it's own category. 

 

 

Hey I'm just going by what you said about build quality etc.  Sure it's a different product category, but the rest of what you said stands and it's still super expensive for what it is, and ISN'T Apple.  


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  # 1753863 3-Apr-2017 15:24
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gehenna:

 

MikeAqua:

 

The Surface Studio is in it's own category. 

 

 

Hey I'm just going by what you said about build quality etc.  Sure it's a different product category, but the rest of what you said stands and it's still super expensive for what it is, and ISN'T Apple.  

 

 

Proving that where there is only one manufacturer of something it is expensive ... which was my main point.

 

 

 

 





Mike

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