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timmmay
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  #2580256 6-Oct-2020 19:48
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ITIL is like TOGAF, good to have on your CV but almost completely useless for most people. 


wsnz
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  #2580325 6-Oct-2020 21:10
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xpd:

 

I've worked for a couple of multinational corporates, they all talk the talk but that's it ;) Funny thing was, both advertised as "ITIL experience preferred" yet was never bought up in interviews ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately for many corporates it has become a box ticking exercise. Certified engineers? Check. Certified helpdesk staff? Check. A happy CIO at the head office makes for a happy divisional IT Manager. Been there, done that.

 

The HR teams also have a tendency to discover industry buzzwords and salivate at the through of incorporating these into every position description.


 
 
 
 


gzt

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  #2580327 6-Oct-2020 21:14
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I.T is in every industry. Pick a role you already fit with your BCom and experience + proximity to the thing you want to do. Eg; BCom and fishing experience look for a role in Sanford, work with the software and move closer to the software/development/cloud side of things there or elsewhere.

wsnz
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  #2580340 6-Oct-2020 21:26
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LarryFisherman:

 

I've decided that I don't enjoy the current industry I'm in and I'm wanting to start a career into IT.

 

 

 

 

Having started my working career teaching the A+ certification alongside various NZQA levels, and having moved up (?) the ranks to senior management, the key piece of advice I would give you at this juncture is to leverage your existing contacts in IT.

 

Who do you know, at any level, that can open a door for you? The door might require some sort of certification (A+ for helpdesk for example), so be willing to attain that qualification if necessary. Obtaining some sort of qualification now, without an offer on the table, shows you're serious about changing career paths, and is something that I'd look favourably upon if your CV was submitted for a job opportunity. Try to align the industry certification with the perceived entry point, so for example, A+ & Network+ for a helpdesk job. Make sure that you articulate your ultimate goal on your CV, as this shows me you're serious about the industry and focused.

 

 

 

 


timmmay
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  #2580359 6-Oct-2020 21:43
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wsnz:

 

Obtaining some sort of qualification now, without an offer on the table, shows you're serious about changing career paths, and is something that I'd look favourably upon if your CV was submitted for a job opportunity.

 

 

Totally agree here. If someone wants to get into a new field it's up to them to retrain themselves, and getting a certification or range of certifications is pretty much necessary. If someone has experience in a field but hasn't bothered to get certified I wonder if they're too lazy or not driven and wonder if we should hire them.


noroad
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  #2581053 8-Oct-2020 09:15
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My son is in his second year (three to complete the Diploma in Cloud Management (Level 7)) here - https://techtorium.ac.nz/it-courses/ and these guys really do seem pretty good to me. All though in his case he does not have to it would be quite possible to work a job to support yourself while doing this studying. They have early and late classes, the early class finishes at 12:30pm (lunch) so people can work after that if needed. First year is covered by the government contribution, subsequent years are 10k which can be done via student loan if needed. They also have quite a few commercial contacts which assist with students gaining industry jobs after completing the qualifications.


BlakJak
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  #2586689 17-Oct-2020 17:41
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timmmay:

ITIL is like TOGAF, good to have on your CV but almost completely useless for most people. 

 

 

It really depends on the working environment you're in.

 

It's possible to 'Work in IT' with a job title like Business Analyst, or Project Manager, and need to be heavily influenced by ITIL.

 

Note I said Influenced. Your role won't be centered on ITIL but understanding it (and having the others you work with and coordinate with, understand it) gives you common language and common understanding.

 

 

If you want to be a lowly Systems Administrator or Helpdesk type, then yes you can land a role where your entire job is task oriented and requires technical skills. But your work is likely to be assigned to you via a trouble ticketing system using ITIL as the guideline for defining incidents and problems and the methods for prioritisation, hand-off and resource allocation.

 

 

I did ITIL v2 through a past employer and had a fairly perfunctory view of its value at the time, but subsequently have found a knowledge of ITIL very valuable, even though we're now at v4? the principles have done me in good stead.

 

Because as you progress you will be working as much with people and process as you will with technology.

 

So don't knock it.

 

 

That being said, you do want to start with with basic technical competencies if you want to have a technical role in IT. Look for a course that'll give you hardware fundamentals, the OSI model, and hands-on engineering guidance for the OS of choice (or two). Knowing how software is executed (at a simple level) and how systems communicate with eachother is kinda fundamental to sysadmin type capabilities.

 

 

For an entry level role I agree that working in an IT Helpdesk environment tied to a trade/industry you're already familiar with is an excellent start. If you can demonstrate good nous and other compatible skills (communications, etc) this may override the desire for experience, particularly for a larger org that can afford to train-you-up. Don't discount that your previous career experience could add value to an employer as well.




No signature to see here, move along...

 
 
 
 


timmmay
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  #2586701 17-Oct-2020 18:15
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Who uses ITIL? BAs, PMs, architects, etc? As an architect, lately a cloud architect, it's not ever come up. I suspect it's more operation types.

 

Cloud people are in high demand right now. People who are experienced with general IT, cloud, and have cloud certifications are like hens teeth.


gbwelly
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  #2586704 17-Oct-2020 18:30
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timmmay:

Who uses ITIL? BAs, PMs, architects, etc? As an architect, lately a cloud architect, it's not ever come up. I suspect it's more operation types.





Yeah, those guys who change stuff and have to do change control. And the poor bastards who have to manage the 300 calls to the service desk about the same fault when something goes wrong...







gehenna
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  #2586705 17-Oct-2020 18:34
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ITIL is a service management framework. An architect should know that.

timmmay
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  #2586710 17-Oct-2020 18:59
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gehenna: ITIL is a service management framework. An architect should know that.

 

Architects don't tend to manage services. I suspect operations staff might know about it, but I've been an architect for a decade or more and have never had it mentioned.


gehenna
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  #2586747 17-Oct-2020 20:15
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That's really weird. I was an architect, all the architects I know and worked with would have known about ITIL. I'm not suggesting an architect would use the framework or incorporate it into their work, but not knowing of it seems strange.

timmmay
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  #2586749 17-Oct-2020 20:21
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gehenna: That's really weird. I was an architect, all the architects I know and worked with would have known about ITIL. I'm not suggesting an architect would use the framework or incorporate it into their work, but not knowing of it seems strange.

 

What is ITIL: "ITIL is a framework of best practices for delivering IT services. ITIL’s systematic approach to IT service management can help businesses manage risk, strengthen customer relations, establish cost-effective practices, and build a stable IT environment that allows for growth, scale and change."

 

That's not really in the scope of what I do. I'm more at the "what does the customer want and how are we going to deliver it" side, architecture, design, leading teams, etc. ITIL from my brief google sounds like it's more useful for people who run and maintain services.


BlakJak
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  #2586751 17-Oct-2020 20:27
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timmmay:

gehenna: ITIL is a service management framework. An architect should know that.

 

Architects don't tend to manage services. I suspect operations staff might know about it, but I've been an architect for a decade or more and have never had it mentioned.

 

 

This is crap. Architects need to build systems that are able to be managed. ITIL is the way a service is managed.

 

 

In my career i've been:

 

Helpdesk

 

Technician

 

Engineer

 

Designer

 

Team Lead

 

Manager

 

 

I've used ITIL at every level.




No signature to see here, move along...

gehenna
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  #2586755 17-Oct-2020 20:35
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I don't think I've worked anywhere that used ITIL exclusively but almost all espoused ITIL alignment. Which is an easy way to make it the employee's problem to learn what ITIL is rather than providing certification training. An architect's scope is definitely making sure the services they are designing, and governance they provide, aligns with business practices, otherwise how could an architect ever work on anything that will transition to operational support?

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