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MikeB4
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  #1177556 17-Nov-2014 20:02
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The current maybe not be ideal but it is way better than open season.

charsleysa
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  #1177559 17-Nov-2014 20:10
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There is still a place for censorship.

Even though there are those parents that let their young children play R18 games, there also parents who don't and wouldn't like their children having unfiltered access to restricted games.

Frankly I would consider a parent letting their 5 year old kid play an extremely violent R18 game to be borderline child abuse of not child abuse.




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Stefan Andres Charsley

 
 
 
 


SaltyNZ
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  #1177565 17-Nov-2014 20:21
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charsleysa: There is still a place for censorship.

Even though there are those parents that let their young children play R18 games, there also parents who don't and wouldn't like their children having unfiltered access to restricted games.

Frankly I would consider a parent letting their 5 year old kid play an extremely violent R18 game to be borderline child abuse of not child abuse.


Well, this is true. But, for example, GTA and Assassin's Creed are named after crimes. Call of Duty Total Future War of Days Past Revenge has a picture of a man on the front holding a big gun. He is probably pointing it at something or someone. Borderlands has a raving psycho.

There's generally enough of a hint in the promotional material for responsible parents to be able to sort it out for themselves. 




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


charsleysa
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  #1177571 17-Nov-2014 20:27
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SaltyNZ:
charsleysa: There is still a place for censorship.

Even though there are those parents that let their young children play R18 games, there also parents who don't and wouldn't like their children having unfiltered access to restricted games.

Frankly I would consider a parent letting their 5 year old kid play an extremely violent R18 game to be borderline child abuse of not child abuse.


Well, this is true. But, for example, GTA and Assassin's Creed are named after crimes. Call of Duty Total Future War of Days Past Revenge has a picture of a man on the front holding a big gun. He is probably pointing it at something or someone. Borderlands has a raving psycho.

There's generally enough of a hint in the promotional material for responsible parents to be able to sort it out for themselves. 


It is way too easy to hide a game from parents once you have it so really the last line of defense for parents who don't want their children to have those games is for retailers to check IDs and not sell restricted content to underage persons.




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Stefan Andres Charsley

SaltyNZ
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  #1177578 17-Nov-2014 20:44
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charsleysa: 
It is way too easy to hide a game from parents once you have it so really the last line of defense for parents who don't want their children to have those games is for retailers to check IDs and not sell restricted content to underage persons.


Our kids would have a hard time hiding their game on the 51" TV in the lounge room, where the XBox is. It's really very easy to keep an eye on them.




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


MikeB4
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  #1177579 17-Nov-2014 20:49
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Independant Classification makes it easier for all concerned to determine content and suitability.

JimmyH
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  #1177672 17-Nov-2014 22:57
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KiwiNZ: Independant Classification makes it easier for all concerned to determine content and suitability.


Granted.

However there are still classifications on the material in question, they just aren't NZ classifications. A violent video game through legitimate channels (say Steam or Amazon) should still have sufficient information from the classification on it (eg the US rating) for you to have a pretty good idea what is on it - even if there are some marginal differences between what our censor likes to pass and what the censors in other major jurisdictions (eg the US, Canada, the UK, Japan, Australia and Korea) like to pass.


 
 
 
 


richms
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  #1177673 17-Nov-2014 23:00
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charsleysa:

It is way too easy to hide a game from parents once you have it so really the last line of defense for parents who don't want their children to have those games is for retailers to check IDs and not sell restricted content to underage persons.


And that works so well for smokes and booze.




Richard rich.ms

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  #1177674 17-Nov-2014 23:01
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KiwiNZ: Independant Classification makes it easier for all concerned to determine content and suitability.


Which would be nice if we had that, but we have a single point of classification, govt mandated. Nothing independent about it.





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JimmyH
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  #1177675 17-Nov-2014 23:01
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SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ: If Parliament has ordained that these should be classified then he is doing the job he is paid to do and should do until Parliament changes the requirements.


Oh yes, nobody's saying he's wrong from that perspective. We're saying the very notion is obsolete.


Exactly.

Whether or not it's a good idea, the boat has sailed. That model worked back in "Fortress NZ" days when pretty much all product was physical and had to come through border control (ie Customs), and there were only limited ways of paying for foreign purchases. Unless we want to turn NZ into the North Korea of the South Pacific, with no access to Netflix, Steam, VPNs, Youtube or pretty much any other content on the internet, it's essentially impossible now.

Digital distribution, easy payment options, and anti-geoblocking mean that it's not a winnable fight. If it's passed by the censors in a major jurisdiction (eg US, UK, Canada, Australia etc) and it's digitally available - then for all practical purposes it's available here. The censor needs to accept that, pull back, and just focus on the truly nasty stuff that's pretty much illegal anywhere and to which stiff jail sentences attach. Trying to stop a 21 year old buying a game off Steam on the basis that there are some marginal differences between what a US censor will pass and what our censor would ideally like to pass is a futile waste of time - and wouldn't practically achieve much, even if by application of draconian measures some measure of success was able to be achieved.

The censor should study the lesson that King Canute learned with his broom by the sea long, long ago.

charsleysa
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  #1177682 17-Nov-2014 23:10
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JimmyH:
SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ: If Parliament has ordained that these should be classified then he is doing the job he is paid to do and should do until Parliament changes the requirements.


Oh yes, nobody's saying he's wrong from that perspective. We're saying the very notion is obsolete.


Exactly.

Whether or not it's a good idea, the boat has sailed. That model worked back in "Fortress NZ" days when pretty much all product was physical and had to come through border control (ie Customs), and there were only limited ways of paying for foreign purchases. Unless we want to turn NZ into the North Korea of the South Pacific, with no access to Netflix, Steam, VPNs, Youtube or pretty much any other content on the internet, it's essentially impossible now.

Digital distribution, easy payment options, and anti-geoblocking mean that it's not a winnable fight. If it's passed by the censors in a major jurisdiction (eg US, UK, Canada, Australia etc) and it's digitally available - then for all practical purposes it's available here. The censor needs to accept that, pull back, and just focus on the truly nasty stuff that's pretty much illegal anywhere and to which stiff jail sentences attach. Trying to stop a 21 year old buying a game off Steam on the basis that there are some marginal differences between what a US censor will pass and what our censor would ideally like to pass is a futile waste of time - and wouldn't practically achieve much, even if by application of draconian measures some measure of success was able to be achieved.

The censor should study the lesson that King Canute learned with his broom by the sea long, long ago.


On the flip side, our censor has passed things that other jurisdictions have not. Do you remember the scandal that was had when the censor just copied Australia's censorship rules for a GTA game?

Everybody was up in arms that it was too tough and petitioned our censor to change it to uncensored R18 classification.




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Stefan Andres Charsley

ckc

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  #1177697 18-Nov-2014 00:18
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JimmyH:

Whether or not it's a good idea, the boat has sailed. That model worked back in "Fortress NZ" days when pretty much all product was physical and had to come through border control (ie Customs), and there were only limited ways of paying for foreign purchases. Unless we want to turn NZ into the North Korea of the South Pacific, with no access to Netflix, Steam, VPNs, Youtube or pretty much any other content on the internet, it's essentially impossible now.

Digital distribution, easy payment options, and anti-geoblocking mean that it's not a winnable fight. If it's passed by the censors in a major jurisdiction (eg US, UK, Canada, Australia etc) and it's digitally available - then for all practical purposes it's available here. The censor needs to accept that, pull back, and just focus on the truly nasty stuff that's pretty much illegal anywhere and to which stiff jail sentences attach. Trying to stop a 21 year old buying a game off Steam on the basis that there are some marginal differences between what a US censor will pass and what our censor would ideally like to pass is a futile waste of time - and wouldn't practically achieve much, even if by application of draconian measures some measure of success was able to be achieved.


Damn straight. And I am so far off the radar of both censorship of TV, movies, books and games that any moves made by the censor are obsolete before he's even tried. Me and many people.

MikeB4
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  #1177712 18-Nov-2014 06:52
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I know a number that would like to see NZ a place with no rules what so ever so they are able to fulfill their selfish desires but thankfully the Government and still most New Zealanders have more sense.

SaltyNZ
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  #1177716 18-Nov-2014 07:20
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KiwiNZ: I know a number that would like to see NZ a place with no rules what so ever so they are able to fulfill their selfish desires but thankfully the Government and still most New Zealanders have more sense.


There used to be a number of people that thought being gay should be illegal too. Fortunately as a society we grew up and decided that what adults want to do in their own private lives is none of the government's business.




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


MikeB4
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  #1177717 18-Nov-2014 07:49
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SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ: I know a number that would like to see NZ a place with no rules what so ever so they are able to fulfill their selfish desires but thankfully the Government and still most New Zealanders have more sense.


There used to be a number of people that thought being gay should be illegal too. Fortunately as a society we grew up and decided that what adults want to do in their own private lives is none of the government's business.


That affects only those involved, pornography, violence etc etc affects a great deal more.

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