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  # 1403469 10-Oct-2015 13:22
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Fred99:
grant_k: Wikileaks has released the final text of the TPP Intellectual Property Rights chapter overnight:  https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip3/

It makes for interesting, if somewhat heavy reading.  Makes me wonder how long UnoTelly et al will be able to continue operating from countries which are TPP signatories...



Sure it looks like use of VPNs for circumvention of geoblocking is dead in the water, ISPs are forced to police the internet, block access to "file sharing sites", and if you get sprung, then they don't just cut off your connection, but can come on a seize and destroy mission for your PC.
Oh well - we knew hollywood was writing half of the TPP.

It seems to get worse though:

From boingboing

Under the terms of the text, countries in the TPP can force each other to suspend legal proceedings if the trial would cause embarrassing information -- information "detrimental to a party’s economic interests, international relations, or national defense or national security" -- would come to light. That would be the Wikileaks/Snowden clause.

Also, if one country is prosecuting someone for "intellectual property theft," they can require other countries to turn over huge amounts of private data: "information regarding any person involved in any aspect of the infringement or alleged infringement, and regarding the means of production or the channels of distribution of the infringing or allegedly infringing goods or services, including the identification of third persons alleged to be involved in the production and distribution of such goods or services and of their channels of distribution."

In other words, if you're accused of downloading anime in America, the Japanese government can force your American ISP to hand over all of your parents' online records.

I think a large part of that is scare-mongering and doubt that it will be so draconian by the time it comes into force in NZ.

However, it sounds like we'd best enjoy our downloading for the next 2 years before the agreement is implemented, because it may not be so easy after that time!

It would be good to get Juha Saarinen's take on all of this because he is someone I would trust much more than 'Boingboing'.





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  # 1403475 10-Oct-2015 13:54
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Geektastic: 

Or 'hence the drive to succeed and become one of them'....


I'm fine with that, so long as there is an *opportunity* to become one of them.

But power in this sense is a finite resource... if you share it with others, you diminish your own power. So those who have power in *any* system do the est they can to exclude others.

I don't for example see that a kid being raised nowadays by a solo mum in a State house could become Prime Minister with a personal fortune of $50M.


gzt

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  # 1403484 10-Oct-2015 14:13
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I dont see why not. Probability says it can still happen. Calculating the odds would be the hard part : ).

Lock him up!
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  # 1403497 10-Oct-2015 14:30
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It is easy to feel anger or hopelessness about something like this. However, I am heartened by the lessons of history. Every time the IP mafia has scored one against providers of unfettered content, technological free spirits have found a way around it. As soon as CDs and later DVDs started being locked, the protections were broken. When DRM came along, public protest pushed it aside. When music sharing sites got hammered, torrenting sprang up. Every time access to content has been impeded, a way has been found around that.

Two years is a long time on the interweb. I have no doubt that if geo-unblocking  is targeted, new developments will find ways around that as well. Just to be clear, we are not talking about piracy here, just people demanding open access to what is already out there. 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  # 1403499 10-Oct-2015 14:34
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freitasm: Things is... Boing Boing is usually correct and editor Cory Doctorow is pretty good at what he does.





An obvious first target forcing ISPs to block access to "file sharing sites" would be to force them to block access to Wikileaks.
Pertinent to note that NZ would have agreed to block access at ISP level if another member state merely accused <ie wikileaks> of "piracy".
No proof required - just an accusation.
Extremely dangerous if that's true, as it wouldn't only apply to sites like wikileaks, and especially when combined with the clauses forcing shutdown of any eg NZ court proceedings which might bring to light information "detrimental to a party’s economic interests, international relations, or national defense or national security".  That's a very broad brush.
Ye who might believe that nothing bad could happen because of the benevolence and general goodness of Uncle Sam should perhaps consider that Malaysia would have the same right to shut down New Zealander's access to sites they accused of piracy, or to shut down NZ court proceedings if they didn't like the idea of what might be exposed.
Just pray it isn't true.


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  # 1403513 10-Oct-2015 14:48
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Fred99: Pertinent to note that NZ would have agreed to block access at ISP level if another member state merely accused <ie wikileaks> of "piracy".
No proof required - just an accusation.


That's how DMCA takedowns work in the USA. Companies first takedown the content, then wait for the content owner/creator to prove the content is not infringing anything.

That's why in the USA there are bots that will scan pages and send automatic DMCA notices. So many are wrong though - things like using a word in a forum discussion that just happens to be in a song title and bam - DMCA notice. And do so on.

But the DMCA was written in the late 90s. It shouldn't be here now.

*sigh*





 
 
 
 


gzt

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  # 1403521 10-Oct-2015 15:14
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MFAT intellectual property fact sheet release yesterday:

"TPP will require New Zealand to provide stronger
protection to technological protection measures
(TPMs) – digital ‘locks’ that protect copyright works. The
main new requirement is to provide civil and criminal
remedies against people breaking TPMs. While TPP also
includes obligations to prevent selling of devices and
services that enable the breaking of TPMs, New Zealand
already has rules in this area.

The TPM provisions will not require New Zealand to
criminalise uses of copyright works that are currently
legitimate under New Zealand law. This is because New
Zealand has negotiated an exceptions provision to
ensure people can continue to break TPMs for legitimate
purposes. These exceptions are not set out in TPP –
the Government will determine what they are during
implementation."

The Government intends to provide exceptions for
situations where use of a copyright work either does
not infringe copyright in the first place, or is otherwise
permitted because there is a copyright exception under
New Zealand law. Examples might include breaking a
region-code on a DVD legitimately purchased overseas
in order to enable it to be viewed on a New Zealand DVD
player, breaking a TPM to allow reverse engineering
of software or interoperability of devices, breaking a
TPM to reformat a work to enable access by the print
disabled, or breaking a TPM to protect privacy."

It is not currently illegal to sell region free DVD player in nz and this is a means of breaking tpm and avoiding geo block. That is my interpretation. Using VPN or DNS for this purpose should be similarly unaffected but who knows it is entirely up to the government if this is a legitimate use for using overseas services. Maybe it can go either way.

Edit: added 3rd para from factsheet makes DVD situation very clear.

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  # 1403536 10-Oct-2015 15:50
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So... if I use a DNS proxy or VPN to view foreign public access television that is already available to anyone in a particular country or geographical area, am I like a region-unblocked DVD or am I in big trouble? How do they decide this kind of thing? Put Sky in charge?





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


gzt

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  # 1403537 10-Oct-2015 15:50
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Fred99:
freitasm: Things is... Boing Boing is usually correct and editor Cory Doctorow is pretty good at what he does.





An obvious first target forcing ISPs to block access to "file sharing sites" would be to force them to block access to Wikileaks.
Pertinent to note that NZ would have agreed to block access at ISP level if another member state merely accused <ie wikileaks> of "piracy".
No proof required - just an accusation.
Extremely dangerous if that's true, as it wouldn't only apply to sites like wikileaks, and especially when combined with the clauses forcing shutdown of any eg NZ court proceedings which might bring to light information "detrimental to a party’s economic interests, international relations, or national defense or national security".  That's a very broad brush.
Ye who might believe that nothing bad could happen because of the benevolence and general goodness of Uncle Sam should perhaps consider that Malaysia would have the same right to shut down New Zealander's access to sites they accused of piracy, or to shut down NZ court proceedings if they didn't like the idea of what might be exposed.
Just pray it isn't true.

I'm not clear on if they want get the current filesharing act with the notices etc and actually make that a totally criminal offence as well. All the implications with convictions declaration and employment etc.

Imho making an invidivial copyright avoidance a crime is dystopian in the extreme.

The fact sheet does not mention this or address those provisions you mentioned at all. That either means no change or saving it for the right moment ; ).



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  # 1403558 10-Oct-2015 16:30
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gzt: MFAT intellectual property fact sheet release yesterday:

The TPM provisions will not require New Zealand to
criminalise uses of copyright works that are currently
legitimate under New Zealand law. This is because New
Zealand has negotiated an exceptions provision to
ensure people can continue to break TPMs for legitimate
purposes.


WRT to TPM, there's a general clause:
"Each Party may provide certain exceptions and limitations to the measures..."
There's an exception, but it doesn't apply solely to NZ, whether or not NZ negotiated for it isn't stated.

But there's another sub-clause (f):

By providing exceptions and limitations under paragraph d(i) and (ii) a Party shall not undermine the adequacy of that Party’s legal system for the protection of effective technological measures, or the effectiveness of legal remedies against the circumvention of such measures, that authors, performers, or producers of phonograms use in connection with the exercise of their rights, or that restrict unauthorized acts in respect of their works, performances or phonograms, as provided for in this Chapter.

IANAL - but I read that as meaning that allowing certain circumvention of TPM is okay - so long as allowing that doesn't remove the rights of the copyright owner to sue anyway, and I expect that it is their right to determine where something is sold, and how, and at what price.

I just edited to highlight "that are currently legitimate under New Zealand law"
I'm of the opinion that avoiding geoblocking by evading TPM probably isn't legitimate, Slingshot's "Global Mode" backdown was an out of court settlement, it's never been tested in the courts - there is no law.


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  # 1403561 10-Oct-2015 16:48
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frankv:
Geektastic: 

Or 'hence the drive to succeed and become one of them'....


I'm fine with that, so long as there is an *opportunity* to become one of them.

But power in this sense is a finite resource... if you share it with others, you diminish your own power. So those who have power in *any* system do the est they can to exclude others.

I don't for example see that a kid being raised nowadays by a solo mum in a State house could become Prime Minister with a personal fortune of $50M.



Depends on the intelligence of the child and the attitude of the mother as much as anything else.

Equality of opportunity and equality of outcome are not the same thing, of course - if the child has limited IQ then no, he/she probably won't. There is a tendency in these days of 'equality' to assume everyone can do the same things and it is only the evil system stopping them from being CEO of Fonterra or PM not their bad genes and/or useless parents etc.





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  # 1403563 10-Oct-2015 16:49
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Rikkitic: So... if I use a DNS proxy or VPN to view foreign public access television that is already available to anyone in a particular country or geographical area, am I like a region-unblocked DVD or am I in big trouble? How do they decide this kind of thing? Put Sky in charge?



How will they know?





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  # 1403565 10-Oct-2015 16:55
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Geektastic:
frankv:
Geektastic: 

Or 'hence the drive to succeed and become one of them'....


I'm fine with that, so long as there is an *opportunity* to become one of them.

But power in this sense is a finite resource... if you share it with others, you diminish your own power. So those who have power in *any* system do the est they can to exclude others.

I don't for example see that a kid being raised nowadays by a solo mum in a State house could become Prime Minister with a personal fortune of $50M.



Depends on the intelligence of the child and the attitude of the mother as much as anything else.

Equality of opportunity and equality of outcome are not the same thing, of course - if the child has limited IQ then no, he/she probably won't. There is a tendency in these days of 'equality' to assume everyone can do the same things and it is only the evil system stopping them from being CEO of Fonterra or PM not their bad genes and/or useless parents etc.


Nothing I have seen persuades me that the IQ of John Key is particularly high.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


gzt

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  # 1403570 10-Oct-2015 17:06
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Geektastic:
frankv:
Geektastic: 

Or 'hence the drive to succeed and become one of them'....


I'm fine with that, so long as there is an *opportunity* to become one of them.

But power in this sense is a finite resource... if you share it with others, you diminish your own power. So those who have power in *any* system do the est they can to exclude others.

I don't for example see that a kid being raised nowadays by a solo mum in a State house could become Prime Minister with a personal fortune of $50M.



Depends on the intelligence of the child and the attitude of the mother as much as anything else.

Equality of opportunity and equality of outcome are not the same thing, of course - if the child has limited IQ then no, he/she probably won't. There is a tendency in these days of 'equality' to assume everyone can do the same things and it is only the evil system stopping them from being CEO of Fonterra or PM not their bad genes and/or useless parents etc.

Yeah let's not do it anymore in this thread. It would make a good seperate topic.

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