Telecommunications Law - Consumer rights around decommissioning copper lines & rights to service?

Forums › ICT Policies and Regulation › Telecommunications Law - Consumer rights around decommissioning copper lines & rights to service?

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186 posts

Master Geek

#2682395 29-Mar-2021 11:30

Chorus will be able decommission the copper network in areas known as "Specified Fibre Areas". There is a map available from the commerce commission https://comcom.govt.nz/regulated-industries/telecommunications/regulated-services/consumer-protections-for-copper-withdrawal/map-of-specified-fibre-areas so you can check to see if your address is within the boundary.

Some details on how the copper will be withdrawn are available on the Chorus website https://www.chorus.co.nz/copper-withdrawal/withdrawing-copper-services This also has a link through the TCF Copper withdrawal code which sets out the process in more detail.

I think I heard that two areas have been selected as part of the trial for later this year which are in the main cities but I can't find any references to them in the announcements. I expect that Chorus will start off slowly to make sure everything goes smoothly.

As mentioned in other posts, Spark is proceeding with decommissioning the NEAX equipment which provides voice services. This should be finished by 2023 according to their investor statements and is separate from the Chorus work.

So I recommend you have a look at the Commerce Commission's map and see if you are in a SPA and if not, then keep talking with your ISP about what is happening.

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nztim

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TEAMnetwork

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#2682728 29-Mar-2021 19:44

wired:

Chorus will be able decommission the copper network in areas known as "Specified Fibre Areas". There is a map available from the commerce commission https://comcom.govt.nz/regulated-industries/telecommunications/regulated-services/consumer-protections-for-copper-withdrawal/map-of-specified-fibre-areas so you can check to see if your address is within the boundary.

Some details on how the copper will be withdrawn are available on the Chorus website https://www.chorus.co.nz/copper-withdrawal/withdrawing-copper-services This also has a link through the TCF Copper withdrawal code which sets out the process in more detail.

I think I heard that two areas have been selected as part of the trial for later this year which are in the main cities but I can't find any references to them in the announcements. I expect that Chorus will start off slowly to make sure everything goes smoothly.

As mentioned in other posts, Spark is proceeding with decommissioning the NEAX equipment which provides voice services. This should be finished by 2023 according to their investor statements and is separate from the Chorus work.

So I recommend you have a look at the Commerce Commission's map and see if you are in a SPA and if not, then keep talking with your ISP about what is happening.

I have been in communication with the OP no fibre, 12km from the nearest GPON hence the 100k install, no FWA, and ADSL at 5mbps, Baseband IP is the only option

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#2682818 29-Mar-2021 23:21

wired:

think I heard that two areas have been selected as part of the trial for later this year which are in the main cities but I can't find any references to them in the announcements. I expect that Chorus will start off slowly to make sure everything goes smoothly.

As mentioned in other posts, Spark is proceeding with decommissioning the NEAX equipment which provides voice services. This should be finished by 2023 according to their investor statements and is separate from the Chorus work.

The two areas you heard about are Miramar Wgtn and Devonport Akld - in these areas, SPARK are closing down their PSTN service as per your second sentence above, with other areas to follow I believe. In these areas the Spark PSTN service delivered over NEAX will cease, and other RSPs who wholesale a Spark PSTN service may also have some impacted customers. But the physical copper wires in these areas will remain in place and baseband IP services from Chorus will remain available for RSPs and end users who consume them for the time being.

Getting back to the original post, as others have stated it does appear that that Vodafone has not given the OP correct information. Chorus is about to trial switching off copper in specific & highly localised areas with extremely high fibre uptake, where few copper customers remain. But for that trial, only fibre capable addresses are included, all affected customers have already been directly advised by Chorus - and we have already stopped accepting new copper connection/activation requests for these addresses. None of these addresses are on Waiheke Island though. If the OP is in any doubt about this, they can check their address against the list of affected addresses here.

So on the surface, the OPs issue does appear to relate to Spark's PSTN/NEAX shutdown, rather than anything Chorus is doing. I think another conversation with Vodafone is required to clarify the messaging.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

CYaBro

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#2682827 29-Mar-2021 23:51

nztim:
wired:

Chorus will be able decommission the copper network in areas known as "Specified Fibre Areas". There is a map available from the commerce commission https://comcom.govt.nz/regulated-industries/telecommunications/regulated-services/consumer-protections-for-copper-withdrawal/map-of-specified-fibre-areas so you can check to see if your address is within the boundary.

Some details on how the copper will be withdrawn are available on the Chorus website https://www.chorus.co.nz/copper-withdrawal/withdrawing-copper-services This also has a link through the TCF Copper withdrawal code which sets out the process in more detail.

I think I heard that two areas have been selected as part of the trial for later this year which are in the main cities but I can't find any references to them in the announcements. I expect that Chorus will start off slowly to make sure everything goes smoothly.

As mentioned in other posts, Spark is proceeding with decommissioning the NEAX equipment which provides voice services. This should be finished by 2023 according to their investor statements and is separate from the Chorus work.

So I recommend you have a look at the Commerce Commission's map and see if you are in a SPA and if not, then keep talking with your ISP about what is happening.

I have been in communication with the OP no fibre, 12km from the nearest GPON hence the 100k install, no FWA, and ADSL at 5mbps, Baseband IP is the only option

How does that work when OP said the fibre is about 4m from one of their buildings? And I must be much further than that, from a GPON, being rural and the cost was only $14k?

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

cyril7

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#2682859 30-Mar-2021 07:35

CYaBro: .............SNIP

How does that work when OP said the fibre is about 4m from one of their buildings? And I must be much further than that, from a GPON, being rural and the cost was only $14k?

So 4m from a duct carrying backhaul to a cabinet/exchange 12km away, with GPON having an approx 8km link budget you will need to place some hardware somewhere closer along the way, so pits to access the existing fibre and breakout a core or two, cabinet/buildig to house an ISAM, the ISAM chassis and associated line and control cards, power supply, batteries, fibre trays, bits and bobs, then pull a GPON tail from there back to you, lucky if 100k would cover it.

Clearly in your case you were lucky, and existing GPON POP was near by and you only paid for some pits, fibre splice containments, a tail back to you and misc bits

Cyril

CYaBro

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#2682865 30-Mar-2021 07:59

cyril7:
CYaBro: .............SNIP

How does that work when OP said the fibre is about 4m from one of their buildings? And I must be much further than that, from a GPON, being rural and the cost was only $14k?

So 4m from a duct carrying backhaul to a cabinet/exchange 12km away, with GPON having an approx 8km link budget you will need to place some hardware somewhere closer along the way, so pits to access the existing fibre and breakout a core or two, cabinet/buildig to house an ISAM, the ISAM chassis and associated line and control cards, power supply, batteries, fibre trays, bits and bobs, then pull a GPON tail from there back to you, lucky if 100k would cover it.

Clearly in your case you were lucky, and existing GPON POP was near by and you only paid for some pits, fibre splice containments, a tail back to you and misc bits

Cyril

Thanks but where would a GPON be used?
I was told by the guys that did the work that we were the only one on the fibre.
It runs past our place to an old roadside cabinet about 2kms down the road.
It’s not even a dsl cabinet.
And it runs all the way back to an exchange that’s about 20km from here and from there back to the main exchange in Oamaru.
They had heaps of trouble getting it working as it had been in the ground since about 1996 and the documentation was not great.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

sansom

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One NZ

#2684047 30-Mar-2021 13:14

Introducing fellow Vodafone staffer and new GZ user @Greepzone (Traci Greep) who manages how the PSTN closures affect Vodafone's customers. She should be able to help on this forum. Please welcome her to Geekzone.

Hamish

nztim

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TEAMnetwork

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#2684054 30-Mar-2021 13:40

sansom:

Introducing fellow Vodafone staffer and new GZ user @Greepzone (Traci Greep) who manages how the PSTN closures affect Vodafone's customers. She should be able to help on this forum. Please welcome her to Geekzone.

Welcome @Greepzone - Is Vodafone going to offer Baseband IP to replace the OP's NEAX lines? It doesn't appear to be a option in your product portfolio

And also thanks to @sansom who for making Vodafone staff available for this

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

dpmclean71

2 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2684058 30-Mar-2021 13:46

Talk to your RSP more on this. Chorus will not shut off any copper services if there isnt a fibre alternative. I think you are getting bad information.

nztim

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#2684062 30-Mar-2021 13:59

Wheelbarrow01:

The two areas you heard about are Miramar Wgtn and Devonport Akld - in these areas, SPARK are closing down their PSTN service as per your second sentence above, with other areas to follow I believe. In these areas the Spark PSTN service delivered over NEAX will cease, and other RSPs who wholesale a Spark PSTN service may also have some impacted customers. But the physical copper wires in these areas will remain in place and baseband IP services from Chorus will remain available for RSPs and end users who consume them for the time being.

Getting back to the original post, as others have stated it does appear that that Vodafone has not given the OP correct information. Chorus is about to trial switching off copper in specific & highly localised areas with extremely high fibre uptake, where few copper customers remain. But for that trial, only fibre capable addresses are included, all affected customers have already been directly advised by Chorus - and we have already stopped accepting new copper connection/activation requests for these addresses. None of these addresses are on Waiheke Island though. If the OP is in any doubt about this, they can check their address against the list of affected addresses here.

So on the surface, the OPs issue does appear to relate to Spark's PSTN/NEAX shutdown, rather than anything Chorus is doing. I think another conversation with Vodafone is required to clarify the messaging.

OP will NEVER have copper removed as they are outside the UFB1 and UFB2 footprint

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

Greepzone

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One NZ

#2684160 30-Mar-2021 15:52

Hi all, @wired has it spot on, two pieces of work are underway:

1. PSTN closure - driven by Spark, will affect POTS customers on NEAX exchanges which are closing.
2. Chorus Copper Withdrawal - will withdraw copper in specific Fibre-saturated areas in line with the Copper Withdrawal Code.

We don't have any messaging out to Consumer customers talking about the Chorus copper withdrawal as yet, but happy for you to PM me @spacedog so I can have a look at what you've received and which alternatives we have available for you - or whether your copper is on the roadmap for withdrawal.

@nzTim - We don't pro-actively provide Baseband IP no, but where customers roll over from NEAX to IMS, we do.

Chorusnz

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Chorus

#2684684 31-Mar-2021 11:54

Hi there,

First of all, we can confirm that there will be no copper decommissioning without direct notice from Chorus well in advance of the switch off.

Our official policy is that affected customers will receive a total of 3 notices prior to the decommissioning of their copper cabinet. This will be at 6 months, 3 months and 20 days prior to the proposed copper decommissioning date.

As has also been mentioned, you can find further information here https://www.chorus.co.nz/copper-withdrawal. Here you can see that currently there are no plans to decommission copper on Waiheke.

Cheers. ^DR

spacedog

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Ultimate Geek

#3126581 12-Sep-2023 16:44

Chorusnz:

Hi there,

First of all, we can confirm that there will be no copper decommissioning without direct notice from Chorus well in advance of the switch off.

Our official policy is that affected customers will receive a total of 3 notices prior to the decommissioning of their copper cabinet. This will be at 6 months, 3 months and 20 days prior to the proposed copper decommissioning date.

As has also been mentioned, you can find further information here https://www.chorus.co.nz/copper-withdrawal. Here you can see that currently there are no plans to decommission copper on Waiheke.

Cheers. ^DR

Hi @Chorusnz - I'm being told by OneNZ that our copper phone lines are being withdrawn from our location on Waiheke in January 2024.

However, it's unclear if they are just saying they won't provide service over a copper phone line or if Chorus is withdrawing the copper.

Can you, or anyone here, comment on this?

There is still no alternative service available in terms of fibre or even RBI/4G/5G coverage at this location. We wish to keep our copper phone lines as the internet that we have relies on the goodwill of neighbors and/or is from a small WISP who tries their best, but we don't feel confident the service is reliable enough to have things like fire and security rely on that connection.

Latest report on NGA for fibre hookup is "in excess of $10,000" - just how much 'in excess' is not clear. My first quote (as mentioned in this thread) was $103k...I was told it might be a lowly $36k about 2 years ago...

SomeoneSomewhere

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#3126623 12-Sep-2023 19:13

Chorus's Copper Withdrawal page (the link you quoted) now shows some withdrawal will be occurring on Waiheke, but still nothing on your road and nothing south of Omiha. Again, One doesn't seem to want to supply service but it's nothing to do with Chorus. And I believe you'll still get notices directly from Chorus.

It looks like there's a handful of accommodation places and other businesses surrounding you. It may be worth having a ring-around and seeing if you can agree to share the cost of an install amongst 3-5 properties.

nztim

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#3126690 12-Sep-2023 21:51

Re-igniting an old thread where plenty of advice has been given, including linking you with another provider, one don't want to keep providing voice over copper, it's not a chorus thing it's a one thing.

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

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