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32 posts


  Reply # 197063 20-Feb-2009 22:49 Send private message

What percentage of a typical ISPs customer base, download songs? If 19 out of 20 downloads infringe copyright, and each infringement is worthy of an internet disconnection, then almost almost all that percentage would no longer exist as a customer for that ISP.


Once a customer is disconnected, you cannot continue to charge them, so what business can suddenly afford to lose customers in that way? And that is on top of what ever other losses occur from people tightening their belts.

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  Reply # 197081 21-Feb-2009 07:33 Send private message

Couldnt have put it better myself



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  Reply # 197153 21-Feb-2009 19:18 Send private message


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  Reply # 197370 22-Feb-2009 22:09 Send private message

kiwitrc: Couldnt have put it better myself?

That is great

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  Reply # 197508 23-Feb-2009 17:57 Send private message

This is now delayed until end of March 2009. Here is the press release from the TCF:

Telecommunications Carriers’ Forum

Auckland, 23 February 2009

TCF Welcomes Progress On Copyright

The Telecommunications Carriers’ Forum (TCF) welcomes the government’s decision to postpone the introduction of s92A of the Copyright Act until the end of March.

“Internet service providers have been working tirelessly to develop a Code of Practice to cover s92A, but despite their best efforts some important detail remains to be resolved,” TCF CEO Ralph Chivers said. “Given that s92A has caused considerable public concern, it is important to have complete clarity on how this section of the Act is likely to be implemented.  The additional time provides the opportunity to seek that clarity, and ensure that affected parties are fully prepared.”

“Recent discussions between the TCF and copyright holders about the content and operation of the Code have been constructive, and it seems likely that we will be able to reach an agreement on all outstanding matters in the near future,” Mr Chivers said.

“Importantly, we have agreed in principle that when a dispute arises over whether a copyright infringement has occurred, an independent third-party will be called upon to adjudicate.  Our agreement on this matter should allay many of the concerns expressed by members of the public, and paves the way for other issues to be quickly resolved.”

The TCF is currently consulting on its draft Code, and welcomes further submissions.  “It is critical that we hear from all parties who are affected by, or have an interest in, this important matter,” Mr Chivers said.

And this is from the InternetNZ:

InternetNZ welcomes decision on faulty Copyright clause Media Release
23 February 2009

InternetNZ (Internet New Zealand Inc) welcomes the Government's decision to defer the commencement of Section 92A of the Copyright Act until March 27 and to suspend the Section if no agreement can be reached.

Section 92A relates to cutting off people's Internet accounts if they were alleged to be repeat copyright infringers.

InternetNZ Executive Director Keith Davidson says the need to delay the implementation of this unworkable section of the law has been clear for weeks.

"New Zealanders can breathe a sigh of relief that their Internet access is no longer under threat due to unproven allegations of copyright infringement. Section 92A still needs to be fully repealed. It is disproportionate and unfit for purpose. But this deferral is a good start.

"The highly visible blackout campaign organised by the Creative Freedom Foundation and its supporters has served to bring the issue into mainstream debates, and we applaud the efforts they have taken," Davidson says.

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Reply # 197516 23-Feb-2009 18:16 Send private message

Great but... I'm with InternetNZ on this one. Repeal S92A and C.

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  Reply # 197522 23-Feb-2009 18:34 Send private message

I'm glad it has been delayed, but it's interesting that the premise is only that the TCF and the copyright holders should sort out the code of practice, and not also take into account concerns from the public (the code might end up good for ISPs and rights holders, but not the public, who evidently still have no say). I agree that it should simply be repealed.

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  Reply # 197552 23-Feb-2009 20:09 Send private message

And here is the NZCS press release:

NZCS Welcomes Copyright Breakthrough

PRESS RELEASE – NZ Computer Society Inc. (NZCS)
23 February 2009
For Immediate Release

The New Zealand Computer Society Inc (NZCS) today welcomed the announcement from Prime Minister John Key that the introduction of the “Guilt Upon Accusation” Section 92a of the Copyright Act had been suspended and may be cancelled.
NZCS today described the breakthrough as a “huge relief”. “The potential ramification of this law were very serious indeed”, said NZCS Chief Executive Paul Matthews.

“Dubbed the ‘Guilt Upon Accusation’ law, Section 92a of the Copyright (New Technologies) Amendment Act could have lead to the internet service of homes, schools, businesses and libraries being forcibly disconnected due to simple accusation alone.”, Matthews said.

After analysis of the law, last month NZCS noted that it would be unethical for an ISP to disconnect the internet account of a customer based purely on the accusation of a third party. However if they didn’t they could fall foul of the law – resulting in an untenable situation.

“NZCS strongly supports the concept of Copyright”, Matthews continued, “however this law went far beyond what is reasonable. Hence we strongly welcome the announcement today that this law will be suspended until March 27 and may be scrapped.”

“We congratulates the Government for listening to the online community of New Zealand”, Matthews said.

Spearheaded by the newly formed Creative Freedom Foundation, a massive online campaign on a scale not seen before in New Zealand was launched in recent months to raise awareness of the consequences of the new laws, culminating in hundreds of the country’s top websites being “blacked out”.

“A law such as this has no place in a free society. We hope the Government follows through and removes this from the statutes, relegating this unfortunate law to the history books”, Matthews concluded.

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  Reply # 197564 23-Feb-2009 20:36 Send private message

I saw John Key on Prime News tonite saying that this legislation was needed if we were to get a FTA with the US.  Now the real reason that labor and National were so much in favor of it..  Guess both like to suck up to the US media corps..



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  Reply # 197568 23-Feb-2009 20:41 Send private message

old3eyes: I saw John Key on Prime News tonite saying that this legislation was needed if we were to get a FTA with the US.  Now the real reason that labor and National were so much in favor of it..  Guess both like to suck up to the US media corps..

It is all here by Colin Jackson. No need to wait for a politician to tell the story on TV:

Before someone says how essential trade is - yes, of course it is. But a Free Trade Agreement is an oxymoron - either you have free trade or you don’t. And if you don’t, then an agreement might better be called a restricted trade agreement, because that is its effect. Perhaps it’s slightly less restricted than what went before.

If politicians deem it justified to legislate away New Zealanders’ rights to a handful of multinationals in exchange for improved trade, let’s have that debate. Don’t be shy, let’s get the costs and benefits out on the table. Then we can all discuss them. We may not all agree, but a least we all get to see what the balance is.

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  Reply # 197600 23-Feb-2009 22:25 Send private message

With regard to the NZ/US free trade agreement - this is a very interesting book on the Australian/US agreement.

We told the US no Nuclear ships, tell them NO again. We do not need a trade agreement with them.

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  Reply # 197608 23-Feb-2009 22:52 Send private message

Now wasn't there a statement that if an agreement couldn't be agreed then this part of the bill would be dropped?

Perhaps it is time for some of the ISPs to stand by their proposed framework and not get brow beaten by RIANZ. Don't agree to any of their submissions before the new date and perhaps this portion of the bill will have to be repealed.

Just hope this takes the rest of 92 with it.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat New Zealand as a Solution Architect for all things Linux, Virtual and of course Cloud. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

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  Reply # 197663 24-Feb-2009 08:37 Send private message

What is our next step/action?

Should we all prepare submissions (using spell checkers please!)?

Maybe this should be a new thread.

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  Reply # 198882 3-Mar-2009 08:16 Send private message

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  Reply # 202837 23-Mar-2009 16:58 Send private message

InternetNZ press release:

InternetNZ welcomes Government decision to abandon Copyright Act clause Media Release
23 March 2009

InternetNZ (Internet New Zealand Inc.) welcomes the decision by Government today to amend Section 92A of the Copyright Act through starting a process to create a more workable law.

Executive Director Keith Davidson says “This decision to change the law will be a relief to those who have valiantly opposed Section 92A and all that it stood for - the way it necessitated termination of Internet accounts based on mere allegations, imposed compliance costs on all sorts of businesses and organisations, and failed to protect these businesses and traditional Internet Service Providers who were caught in the middle through no fault of their own.

“Terminating an Internet account was always a disproportionate response to copyright infringement and to force ISPs and other organisations to be copyright judges and policemen was never an acceptable situation.”

Davidson says the trend internationally is away from attempting to legislate for termination of Internet accounts for those alleged to be infringing copyright.

“New Zealand has narrowly escaped being the global guinea pig for this approach and precedent setter for its advocates.”

Davidson says there are very good judicial, practical and ethical reasons for rejection of 92A, articulated in the submissions to the Telecommunications Carriers’ Forum (TCF) Copyright Code of Practice.
Section 92A was opposed by the overwhelming majority of these submissions and by the earlier Commerce Select Committee’s opinion.

“It was unfortunate that it was reinserted into the Act at the last minute, leading to incredible wastage in people’s time and effort over the past year. On the upside, New Zealanders are now far more aware of the importance of protecting the openness of the Internet.”

Davidson also says New Zealand should not have contemplated trading the public’s unfettered access to the Internet as part of international trade treaties without consulting the wider public.

“Access to the Internet is very important to our economic future, bringing New Zealand ‘closer’ to its trading partners and markets. We fully support the Government’s fibre-to-the-home initiative and anticipate that more and more online services will be crucial to businesses and consumers alike.

“We are grateful that the Government has pulled back from allowing the Internet to be compromised on the basis of the narrow commercial interests of global entertainment industries trying to shore up failing business models. Those industries should focus on educating their customers not threatening them. Government may like to consider the Notice and Notice approach to such education advocated by InternetNZ, an approach that has been successful in both Canada and Japan.”

InternetNZ will continue to work with the Government and all interested parties to put in place better Copyright law that takes account of the realities of the digital age and all it has to offer, says Davidson.

Note that it says "the decision by Government today to amend Section 92A of the Copyright Act through starting a process to create a more workable law".

So not everything is done and closed yet. Now a lot of lobbying will start...

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