An idea instead of current piracy laws

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#479955 10-Jun-2011 23:32

macuser:

How can a media company convince users to buy their content

How can we prevent people pirating content

1. have you read replies in this thread? if you havent, let me summarize it for you. they do not need to convince users to buy their content. what they need is to make their contents available to the customers.

2. pirating will not be an issue if those contents are easily available to the customers.

sure, there will always be people who are not willing to pay for anything. the same goes to why small percentage of people steal cars, rob banks etc. you can put them into jail, but that will not stop them do from what they want to do.

do you know how many people subcsribe to VPN service just so that they can watch the tv shows/series online? people are willing to pay IF you provide the service

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tdgeek

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#480006 11-Jun-2011 11:05

Guys, guys, guys. You are being too hard on the OP.

Man, ths is a forum, can there not be a bit of give and take if you don't agree with any OP's posting? Name calling is not necessary.

His ideas for instant fines are not realistic, although that is the same process that will be in effect, except there is time taken for due process to give the accused 2 opportunties to cease his actions. And there is a commission to see the evidence so that if a fine is made it is made based upon proper evidence. A parking ticket is instant as the evidence is proper and instant, so therefre the fine can be instant too.

Internet ID? Well. No-one wants that, neither do I, which is ironic as that is how first world countries are managed. We have an ID for everything. I find it humourous that there is an outcry on that, as all of you on here are part of an ID based life. If there was a managed debate on this, I cannot see how you can really argue that internet registration should not happen. If you could argue that well, then you can place that argument on the many other parts of our life that are ID'ed surely? A great topic to debate, but probably impossible to put into effect.

Copyright and stealing? They are different as stealing comes under the Crimes Act while copyright doesnt, so that is a civil action. However, if a content is available, and I download that instead, well that as basically theft as I see it. Taking away revenure from the creator, the creators media manage,ent company that turns the content into a song, a movie, etc, the companies that warehouse the product, the companies that ship it, the companies that sell it online, and the retail stores.

Yes, that some content is not available here is a big reason why pirating occurs. I get the feeling from these and other posts, that this is the main reason, I disagree with that. Many of us are happy to pay, but I am sure that if you were able to look at the actual content pirated in any one period, I am sure that 95% of it is available.

But please remember that the OP put his comments as what he feels could work. If you disagree, say so, but everyone on here has varying levels of knowledge on the many parts of the internet and legal world, the forum is a place to discuss, not name call.

macuser

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#480097 11-Jun-2011 17:01

tdgeek

Thanks for that cool reply TDGeek, I think you took a bit more time to see where I was coming from, which I appreciate.

I really like your points, I still don't get why some of the other posters didn't get mine, ID's are common in day to day real life activities, they are not perfect in that situation either, but for the most part, they do a good job at what they were designed to do.

I'd like to find a rule of best fit, it seems at the moment, everyone seems as though they are being hard done by.
The consumers, and creaters of content, and the stores that sell the content.

If you're accessing but not paying for content that you are able to access and pay for, it shouldn't be up to the companies that own the media to convince you to pay for it, it should be a case of 'if you want to consume this content, you pay for the privilege.' Even if the content is a horribly arbitrary to access, you shouldn't be able to take that content, if you don't see it fit to pay for it. What the content company has to figure out is what way they can serve and price the content where they will get enough customers to make a profitable business. If they want to charge nothing for the content they are responsible for, that's their choice, and if they can stay in business with that model, that's great for them and you the consumer.

There is just this mentality that on the internet you can take what you want, do what you want, act how you want without consequence, It doesn't seem as though it can be kept up forever...

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#480119 11-Jun-2011 18:21

macuser: It doesn't seem as though it can be kept up forever...

No, you're right, sooner or later they will realize that if they want to get paid, they'll have to first offer for sale.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

tdgeek

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#480120 11-Jun-2011 18:26

The ID is a good idea in principle, but it will never happen as the internet is too big, and there woukd be widespread resistance. The best you can hope for is ID/registration for parts of it, which we have, i.e. when you join a forum such as this.

The attacks you have had are due to this reason. All of us disagree with some legal aspects of the Act. Some, like me, for these legal issues. The others may argue this and that, but their main beef is that they may get taken to task for stealing copyright content, that does need to be paid for, to support the huge number in that producer to retailer chain of individuals.

When one of these gets a notice for the files they know they downloaded , I am sure you will see a raft of claims of abuse of them. On the lighter side, it all makes for a good debate, and a good read. It is a pity though that some posts show that the poster shows that those involved in the Act and for what it is trying to achieve, are stupid, ill informed, and have no idea of the rights of people, by taking the unspeakable act of trying to reduce the theft of copyright content.

macuser

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#480122 11-Jun-2011 18:27

SaltyNZ:
macuser: It doesn't seem as though it can be kept up forever...

No, you're right, sooner or later they will realize that if they want to get paid, they'll have to first offer for sale.

And here we go again.

Most of pirating is of material that is readily available to the consumer, they just choose not to pay for it.

macuser

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#480128 11-Jun-2011 18:40

Obama administration pushing ahead with Internet ID plan...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20054342-281.html

Although it is a little different

nakedmolerat

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#480144 11-Jun-2011 19:33

tdgeek: Many of us are happy to pay, but I am sure that if you were able to look at the actual content pirated in any one period, I am sure that 95% of it is available.

cool statistic there. where do you get that from?

macuser

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#480147 11-Jun-2011 19:41

nakedmolerat:
tdgeek: Many of us are happy to pay, but I am sure that if you were able to look at the actual content pirated in any one period, I am sure that 95% of it is available.

cool statistic there. where do you get that from?

Have a look at The Pirate Bay's top 100 movie torrents, and tell me that a large portion will not be released on DVD or are not currently/have been in theatre in NZ.

jbard

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#480159 11-Jun-2011 20:29

macuser: Obama administration pushing ahead with Internet ID plan...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20054342-281.html

Although it is a little different

That idea is completely different from the idea you have proposed, not even remotely similar ideas.

jbard

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#480160 11-Jun-2011 20:36

macuser:
nakedmolerat:
tdgeek: Many of us are happy to pay, but I am sure that if you were able to look at the actual content pirated in any one period, I am sure that 95% of it is available.

cool statistic there. where do you get that from?

Have a look at The Pirate Bay's top 100 movie torrents, and tell me that a large portion will not be released on DVD or are not currently/have been in theatre in NZ.

That proves nothing, the situation is far different in NZ compared to US/UK/EU - these countries influence TPB top 100.

With huge datacaps and really fast broadband people don't think twice about downloading files overseas.

But with the state of broadband in NZ it is a different story,

For me personally i have even gone to the point of setting up a VPN and getting a Netfilx and Hulu account so i can enjoy the shows i want.

These cost me NZ$300 a year without including my broadband plan - this clearly proves that i am prepared to pay for the content, but only a few months ago i did pirate many TV shows simply because i couldn't get them anywhere else.

As for the 95% stat, without any actually proof of that i would say it is way way off the mark.

lokhor

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#480161 11-Jun-2011 20:36

macuser:
nakedmolerat:
tdgeek: Many of us are happy to pay, but I am sure that if you were able to look at the actual content pirated in any one period, I am sure that 95% of it is available.

cool statistic there. where do you get that from?

Have a look at The Pirate Bay's top 100 movie torrents, and tell me that a large portion will not be released on DVD or are not currently/have been in theatre in NZ.

Physical media is not popular anymore. I would definitely pay for HD versions of movies through digital distribution, but I am unwilling to pay for a Bluray device or the discs. I should be able to have a digital collection of media that I can access on any and all of my devices.

All comments are my own opinion, and not that of my employer unless explicitly stated.

jbard

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#480165 11-Jun-2011 20:47

Man, ths is a forum, can there not be a bit of give and take if you don't agree with any OP's posting? Name calling is not necessary.

I don't see any name calling?

Copyright and stealing? They are different as stealing comes under the Crimes Act while copyright doesnt, so that is a civil action. However, if a content is available, and I download that instead, well that as basically theft as I see it. Taking away revenure from the creator, the creators media manage,ent company that turns the content into a song, a movie, etc, the companies that warehouse the product, the companies that ship it, the companies that sell it online, and the retail stores.

First of all, just because you pirate an item it doesn't mean you are taking revenue away from the creator - 1 download != 1 lost sale.

In fact their is a lot of information out their to suggest that a pirated item doesn't result in much/any loss of revenue.

Sales of merchandise and live shows have increased dramatically over the last 10 years and this could be a result of the huge increase in the distribution of music through pirating.

1080p

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#480166 11-Jun-2011 20:50

Well, as previously stated, there will always be those who pirate no matter what the consequence. Looking at the top one hundred films on a website which indexes over three and a half million torrents is not 95% is it? The Pirate Bay dos not track three an a half million movies but one hundred is certainly less than one percent of movies on that site and that is close to what I might expect the figure of people who would always pirate no matter what would be.

We also need to clarify what we mean when we say readily available to the consumer. I mean something that is either available instantly in a brick and mortar store or online for immediate download. I am preferring less and less to pick up physical media due to space constraints and would like an online option.

Compare how long films have been illegally distributed online (since ~1999-2000 when DeCSS & DivX were first released) to how long films have been available to New Zealand consumers online. Are they even yet? I am mainly a Linux user so don't check in with iTunes to see if they rent them yet.

As for penalties to assist deterrence of copyright infringement they are already there. A rights holder is permitted to take a suspected infringer to court with evidence to prove they did what they said they did.

That is all the deterrence that is needed in my opinion.

1080p

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#480167 11-Jun-2011 20:51

Ragnor:
macuser:

Take my flatmate, a new album by Tyler, the creator came out, he immediately went to a torrent website and downloaded it.

Well for a start that just shows your flatmate has poor taste in two ways.. hah

The bottom line is no matter what the supplier/creator/maker thinks a good is worth it's only worth what buyers are willing to pay for it.

If your flatmate isn't willing to pay for the digital version of the album because he knows the marginal cost of creating an extra unit of the product and delivering it to his computer is effectively nothing the good it in fact has no value.

The great thing about infinite goods is that they create other scarcities, chances are your flatmate will buy a ticket to the concert if the artist tours here and might by a t-shirt at the gig if he's a big fan.

In 2010 Metallica made ~$1M from CD sales and $100M from touring and merchandise....

Your proposed solutions are protecting obsolete business models and are backwards thinking. Artificial scarcity won't work in the long run.

I suggest you watch some of Mike Masnick's presentations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njuo1puB1lg

Source for Metallica profits?

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