An idea instead of current piracy laws

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#480176 11-Jun-2011 21:43

jbard:

Okay, I understand that you are happy to pay more money to access television that you can't access here, once again, that isn't the point.

Let's remember that to have an accurate survey you only need a large enough slice of data to feel that you have done justice to the research. The Top 100 Movies on The Pirate Bay I believe is a pretty quick and easy indicator of movie torrents in NZ, as many people who do torrent in NZ know how to filter by most seeders (which would give the same results as the Top 100 section. It's a quick and dirty analysis, but I don't think it is far off the truth.

As a whole, I believe this is relevant world wide, and regardless of our data caps. In the last month, using Slingshots offpeak data between 2am and 8am, I have downloaded around 50GB that hasn't eaten in to the data allowance I pay for.

Let's remember that downloading a movie from iTunes uses the same, if not more data than a movie from The Pirate Bay and some ISP's don't give you free data to iTunes. Most people don't care about the quality, as long as it is watchable, so creating an arguement about file quality only applies to enthusiasts like us.

If a band wants to give out their album for free, that's absolutely cool, maybe that's what more bands should do! But the fact of the matter is, if they expect an amount of money for an album, and you are unwilling to pay for it, you shouldn't be aloud to access it. It's either up to them to bring their price down, or you to reach into your pockets and fish out some cash.

lokhor

It doesn't actually matter if the media is easily available to you, if you are unwilling to pay for something, you should not have access to that thing.

Media companies are responsible for making money for themselves, if they are charging too much or their offerings are just not appealing, then no one will buy their product, in that case, no one will have access to it. They have to put more work in to make what they do valuable to a customer, but a would be customer shouldn't be able to take the content below what was agreed on. A transaction is a contract between buyer and seller.

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blakamin

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#480178 11-Jun-2011 21:52

1080p:
Source for Metallica profits?

Big 4 touring?

I know their album sales sucked more d**k than deep throat...
You could ask lars, but he'll blame napster ;P

macuser

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#480183 11-Jun-2011 22:03

As for penalties to assist deterrence of copyright infringement they are already there. A rights holder is permitted to take a suspected infringer to court with evidence to prove they did what they said they did.

Replied to the other parts of the post in my last reply to jbard and lokhor

As for penalties, I think the fees and work associated with taking someone to court over a movie download strongly outweigh the benefits of doing so. Not only does it end up that they will never be able to get the money from the offender, but it also creates a dislike for the media industry. It becomes David and Goliath, 'why should I give the fat cats in suits my money, they already have enough'. What it really is about is somebody is doing somebody else a wrong, that most of the time goes without consequence. Giving out smaller fines deters the majority of people from committing copyright offenses as they don't want to lose money out of their own pockets, it doesn't deter everyone, but no law ever stops 100% of people.

I think if it was central, at least it would be better than being taken to court by a huge corporation because some security company overseas accused you doing so, 3 or however many times.

I think that if people received a letter from a central and regulated body, saying that 'Hey, we have data that shows you have downloaded X file at X time, this is against the law and you will be fined $XX ' It would let people quickly understand that what they are doing is wrong, even if it is the big guy, and they should have just payed for it in the first place.

tdgeek

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#480196 11-Jun-2011 23:23

---I don't see any name calling?---

Calling him a troll, repeatedly

---1 download != 1 lost sale.---

So if you download a movie, you would not need to have bought it, or hired it? Same for music? So, when dowlaoding via P2P wasnt in existence you never paid money for a music CD, movie, movie tickets, game, etc?

Ok

---Sales of merchandise and live shows have increased dramatically over the last 10 years and this could be a result of the huge increase in the distribution of music through pirating.---

That is funny. Sorry.

Seems to me you should be pushing for the worldwide ban on copyright. There have been users on here stating just that.

blakamin

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#480200 11-Jun-2011 23:37

Does anyone remember "back-in-the-day" before broadband was "everywhere" and people had only just started getting DVD, people used to rent DVDs and rip them for personal use?

tdgeek

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#480205 11-Jun-2011 23:49

---people used to rent DVDs and rip them for personal use?---

Rent =paid money

You could also mention record off the cassette recorder, and copy game tapes. The difference is quantity getting out of control I guess

Off Topic
I have an issue posting here in the Quick Reply, often, the vertical line cursor thing disappears, anyone else have that?

nakedmolerat

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#480207 12-Jun-2011 00:04

macuser:
nakedmolerat:
tdgeek: Many of us are happy to pay, but I am sure that if you were able to look at the actual content pirated in any one period, I am sure that 95% of it is available.

cool statistic there. where do you get that from?

Have a look at The Pirate Bay's top 100 movie torrents, and tell me that a large portion will not be released on DVD or are not currently/have been in theatre in NZ.

ok, im out from this thread. i dont think you have much understanding... since when TPB can represent NZ? oh, your internet ID and obama internet ID is not the same. i suggest you read through the article after googling 'internet id'.

macuser

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#480213 12-Jun-2011 00:33

nakedmolerat:
macuser:
nakedmolerat:
tdgeek: Many of us are happy to pay, but I am sure that if you were able to look at the actual content pirated in any one period, I am sure that 95% of it is available.

cool statistic there. where do you get that from?

Have a look at The Pirate Bay's top 100 movie torrents, and tell me that a large portion will not be released on DVD or are not currently/have been in theatre in NZ.

ok, im out from this thread. i dont think you have much understanding... since when TPB can represent NZ? oh, your internet ID and obama internet ID is not the same. i suggest you read through the article after googling 'internet id'.

The point I was making with that was that they understand that identification from a central agency is important for identifying people to have secure and safe internet encounters, it would also be great for helping law enforcement agencies tackle problems on the web like they mentioned, and let people access the internet without their rights being abused. If people are accountable for their actions on the web they are less likely to be horrible, nasty and criminal. Just like a public place.

Ragnor

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#480228 12-Jun-2011 04:08

1080p: Source for Metallica profits?

Can't remember where I saw the figures for 2010 so I can double check them but found the 2009 from billboard.com:

Metallica had at least two things to celebrate in 2009: its induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the release of "Guitar Hero: Metallica." Along with touring revenue -- the band pulled in $22.8 million from 55 arena shows reported to Boxscore that drew more than 968,000 fans -- Metallica sold 694,000 albums in 2009. The majority of those sales came from its Rick Rubin-produced 2008 release, "Death Magnetic" (297,000). Album sales revenue totaled $1.6 million. And most of Metallica's track download earnings came from its 1991 hit "Enter Sandman," which sold 450,000.

100M for 2010 does sound unlikely but still for 2009: 20M vs 1,6M still illustrates the point.

Ragnor

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#480229 12-Jun-2011 04:16

tdgeek:

---1 download != 1 lost sale.---

So if you download a movie, you would not need to have bought it, or hired it? Same for music? So, when dowlaoding via P2P wasnt in existence you never paid money for a music CD, movie, movie tickets, game, etc?

That's a one sided view... what about when:

Person downloads the 128kbit mp3 version of a band's album, they like it so they do go an buy the CD.

Person downloads an album of a band touring here soon, based on liking the album they purchase a ticket to the concert, they loved the concert so they purchase and official t-shirt

Person doesn't download the album, forgets about the band doesn't buy anything.

SaltyNZ

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#480231 12-Jun-2011 07:40

macuser: ?

Let's remember that to have an?accurate?survey you only need a large enough slice of data to feel that you have done justice to the research. ?The Top 100 Movies on The Pirate Bay I believe is a pretty quick and easy indicator?of movie torrents in NZ,

Apart from the fact already mentioned that 100/3.5M is not quite 95%, in the same metaphorical breath you claim to want an accurate survey, and also that a quick and easy indicator is ok. By your own criteria, my anecdote about not being able to buy the Redcoats songs being the real reason they lost a sale is therefore proof positive, as it is both 100% accurate and also a quick and easy indication of content availability in NZ.

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SaltyNZ

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#480237 12-Jun-2011 08:07

NZ waits again: http://www.iphonedownloadblog.com/2011/06/11/icloud-music-unavailable-internationally-until-2012/

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tdgeek

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#480240 12-Jun-2011 08:47

---Person doesn't download the album, forgets about the band doesn't buy anything. ---

How did they know about the band? Radio and TV, as has always been the case. They downloaded it to avoid paying

DS9

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#480246 12-Jun-2011 09:17

tdgeek: ---people used to rent DVDs and rip them for personal use?---

Rent =paid money

You could also mention record off the cassette recorder, and copy game tapes. The difference is quantity getting out of control I guess

Off Topic
I have an issue posting here in the Quick Reply, often, the vertical line cursor thing disappears, anyone else have that?

I used to have copies of friends music on Cassettes/cd and they had mine, then movies via VHS/DVD etc. One of us brought/Rent them, is this not the same for torrents "paid money" yes once though.

I aim to misbehave.

macuser

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#480251 12-Jun-2011 09:39

There still seems to be a lot of arguments from the other corner that pirating can be positive if it makes money for an artist in other ways.

You guys still don't seem to be understanding my point,

Please read my replies and understand that, if an artist wants to give their stuff away for free, or wants to let you decide how much you want to pay for something (think radiohead in rainbows), then that is coo and maybe they are pretty smartl! But when you pirate an album, you are paying nothing for something that probably was expected to be paid for.

I don't think borrowing is an issue man, it's unreasonable to expect people to not be able to do what they want with media they have purchased.

Ripping from rented DVD's, well, that's breaking the law in a different way, so it's not something we should get into here...

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