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477 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 668947 7-Aug-2012 13:35
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In my (not an expert) opinion it is a leaky capacitor. I have emailed the photo to get an expert opinion on it.
Hopefully will have an answer on this shortly

This kind of crap really annoys me :)

815 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 668949 7-Aug-2012 13:37
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Final year elec eng here, I will get an electronics prof to look at the picture.

 
 
 
 




38 posts

Geek


  # 668952 7-Aug-2012 13:41
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cyril7: Hi, to me that there is no identifiable water damage, it seems more likely that its either flux residue on the terminal of the capacitor or dielectric leakage. The appearance of the capacitor would suggest that its a ceramic therefore its not normal that any dielectric could appear as solid ceramic is the dielectric. If however it was a tantalum (and it could well be) then its possible that it has leaked due to voltage or heat damage, hard to tell.

As an aside I worked as a design engineer in radio product design for over 25yrs both leaded and surface mount products.

Cyril


Hi Cyril,
I did actually comment to the assistant at Telecom that the phone was suddenly getting hot whencharging or using GPS but there is nothing on the report suggesting she had informed Telegistics of this. Is there fluid type materials inside or around a capacitor then that could cause this problem??

1923 posts

Uber Geek


  # 668954 7-Aug-2012 13:41
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Just a bit of a note on 'liquid damage'.

When they refer to 'liquid' they're meaning damage (or evidence thereof) that is consistent with liquid damage. It doesn't mean you have actually got the unit wet (rain) or dropped in the loo. It could simply be a case of excessive moisture getting into the device a variety of ways.

Soo.... clarifying that. When you use the unit it gets warm (everything that uses electricity generates heat). This will warm up the small volume of air that is in the device, few handsets are hermetically sealed. As you'll know warm air holds more moisture, so if you're in a humid environment (or even having the device on you when you work out and sweat) the air in the device will be 'holding' more moisture.
When the device cools down (shade, night-time, leave the gym) the air in the device will release the moisture it can't hold, usually onto cooler metal components.

If the moist air was laden with salts (from sweat/sea air) then these will also be deposited onto the components as it cools and these deposits cause corrosion and damage. Further to this there will likely be deposits in places you can't see (there's some very tiny spaces between component leads and the board surface, particularly around IC's).

This means that if there's visible damage somewhere there is likely to be other unseen corrosions that can/will cause problems later. This is why repairers tend to mark units as uneconomical for repair.

OK, but that doesn't mean the device is not fit for purpose. Remember they sell these units in countries all around the world and many (eg: Singapore) are very humid. Most of us don't have any issues with them in normal everyday use.

Yours may well be a case of a poorly fitted component and an associated corrosive dry joint. But equally the damage may have resulted from wearing the unit at the gym (you'd be surprised how many ladies hold their cellfones in their bras), leaving it on the sill in the bathroom when you shower, or on top of the microwave next to the pots on the stove or a boiling kettle.

I'm not making a call on your particular case either way, but sometimes it helps to have a better understanding of the issue from the other side of the counter.



38 posts

Geek


  # 668957 7-Aug-2012 13:44
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mattRSK: Final year elec eng here, I will get an electronics prof to look at the picture.


Thanks Matt

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  # 668960 7-Aug-2012 13:46
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Hi as the OP mentions from comments around the world (UK in particular) SGSII phones have been failing in large numbers due to "liquid damage", it could be the real numbers are no different to other model phones, but comments on various forums seem to indicate maybe not.

Cyril



38 posts

Geek


  # 668975 7-Aug-2012 13:51
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sittingduckz: In my (not an expert) opinion it is a leaky capacitor. I have emailed the photo to get an expert opinion on it.
Hopefully will have an answer on this shortly

This kind of crap really annoys me :)


Thank you, If I had been shown liquid deposits or stainage on motherboard or point of entry I would never have questioned the diagnosis, but they have not shown any of that just an extremely small component that has many components close to it with absolutley no damage or marks on them but this one has been singled out by that so called droplet of water/moisture.
it just seems to me that a component is not allowed to fail in the eyes of Phone companies. now if my computer suddenly died I would have to hold my hands up to the many glasses of red wine that have slipped from my hand onto it but she is still going strong so maybe phone companies should be using ACERS SMC's ;0)

 
 
 
 




38 posts

Geek


  # 668978 7-Aug-2012 13:53
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cyril7: Hi as the OP mentions from comments around the world (UK in particular) SGSII phones have been failing in large numbers due to "liquid damage", it could be the real numbers are no different to other model phones, but comments on various forums seem to indicate maybe not.

Cyril


Cyril did you get the links to the Vodafone UK forum on this phone I think it is a bigger problem with this phone than any other from the research I have done but still nothing is done

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  # 668982 7-Aug-2012 13:54
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yep



38 posts

Geek


  # 669108 7-Aug-2012 16:09
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oxnsox: Just a bit of a note on 'liquid damage'.

When they refer to 'liquid' they're meaning damage (or evidence thereof) that is consistent with liquid damage. It doesn't mean you have actually got the unit wet (rain) or dropped in the loo. It could simply be a case of excessive moisture getting into the device a variety of ways.

Soo.... clarifying that. When you use the unit it gets warm (everything that uses electricity generates heat). This will warm up the small volume of air that is in the device, few handsets are hermetically sealed. As you'll know warm air holds more moisture, so if you're in a humid environment (or even having the device on you when you work out and sweat) the air in the device will be 'holding' more moisture.
When the device cools down (shade, night-time, leave the gym) the air in the device will release the moisture it can't hold, usually onto cooler metal components.

If the moist air was laden with salts (from sweat/sea air) then these will also be deposited onto the components as it cools and these deposits cause corrosion and damage. Further to this there will likely be deposits in places you can't see (there's some very tiny spaces between component leads and the board surface, particularly around IC's).

This means that if there's visible damage somewhere there is likely to be other unseen corrosions that can/will cause problems later. This is why repairers tend to mark units as uneconomical for repair.

OK, but that doesn't mean the device is not fit for purpose. Remember they sell these units in countries all around the world and many (eg: Singapore) are very humid. Most of us don't have any issues with them in normal everyday use.

Yours may well be a case of a poorly fitted component and an associated corrosive dry joint. But equally the damage may have resulted from wearing the unit at the gym (you'd be surprised how many ladies hold their cellfones in their bras), leaving it on the sill in the bathroom when you shower, or on top of the microwave next to the pots on the stove or a boiling kettle.

I'm not making a call on your particular case either way, but sometimes it helps to have a better understanding of the issue from the other side of the counter.


I can understand your points, but there should always be some sort of water mark where the moisture has dried around the area and at least where the moisture got into the device. another question then is why can a phone work extremely well with the dense humidity of say Malaysia, yet fail in a less humid environment if moisture gets in it gets in and components should react the same or is it that the quality is the issue??. the thing that really annoyed me was that on the Telegistics paperwork it states that I abused the phone, so that to me does not mean that moisture has gotten into it by it maybe getting hot then cold or from atmospheric conditions. If the phone shows water/liquid marks then that shows the phone has been dropped into or had alot of liquid placed around it but surely if no water/liquid marks are present they are required to prove it is actual liquid damage that has enter the phone and that it is the fault of the owner, and say a slight injest of fluid whilst being stored in warehouse or in transit from Korea??

178 posts

Master Geek


  # 669133 7-Aug-2012 16:47
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fletchaman: and can not be used to listen to music whilst training or basically anything a mobile is called a mobile for!!!


This stood out to me. You were using your smartphone for training? As someone who both works in a mobile store and works out frequently, this was clearly a bad idea. You get hot and sweaty. Moisture inevitably makes its way inside the device. Either by the humidity of your skin or by the phone rubbing/touching your wet and salty skin and hands (and clothes). And this says nothing about the frequent impact the phone will inevitably sustain. Get an iPod nano for training. Leave your smartphone at home.

That said, I've seen hundreds of liquid damaged phones in my time. That is surprisingly isolated. I would have called that flux if not for the green deposit. Check the indicator under the battery. If it's red, you definitely got some moisture in there. If it's white you might have a shot.

857 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 669197 7-Aug-2012 18:21
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michaelmurfy:Why is this Telecom's fault? You're dealing with another company known as Telegistics which have their own companies office page 


Telegistics are 100% owned by Telecom Mobile (as the Companies Office states) so effectively, they are Telecom. It's Telecom's fault as they're in charge of the warranty process through their retail stores anyway. 

Related: I'm currently going through a similar ordeal (warranty claim denied due to 'liquid damage') with the absolutely incompetent company known as Telegistics and my iPhone 4S. I intend on fighting it via CGA and failing that small claims. Big rant coming as soon as I get my phone back.




 




38 posts

Geek


  # 669219 7-Aug-2012 19:10
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GBristow:
fletchaman: and can not be used to listen to music whilst training or basically anything a mobile is called a mobile for!!!


This stood out to me. You were using your smartphone for training? As someone who both works in a mobile store and works out frequently, this was clearly a bad idea. You get hot and sweaty. Moisture inevitably makes its way inside the device. Either by the humidity of your skin or by the phone rubbing/touching your wet and salty skin and hands (and clothes). And this says nothing about the frequent impact the phone will inevitably sustain. Get an iPod nano for training. Leave your smartphone at home.

That said, I've seen hundreds of liquid damaged phones in my time. That is surprisingly isolated. I would have called that flux if not for the green deposit. Check the indicator under the battery. If it's red, you definitely got some moisture in there. If it's white you might have a shot.


nope I was stating basically what I was told that the phone should not be used in these situations, I use my Ipod when training/ listening to music.

I cannot locate any moisture indicators behind the battery there is nothing showing anywhere i can see if there are any they must be behind screws but they have not shown these in the photo if there is.



38 posts

Geek


  # 669220 7-Aug-2012 19:14
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Peppery:
michaelmurfy:Why is this Telecom's fault? You're dealing with another company known as Telegistics which have their own companies office page 


Telegistics are 100% owned by Telecom Mobile (as the Companies Office states) so effectively, they are Telecom. It's Telecom's fault as they're in charge of the warranty process through their retail stores anyway. 

Related: I'm currently going through a similar ordeal (warranty claim denied due to 'liquid damage') with the absolutely incompetent company known as Telegistics and my iPhone 4S. I intend on fighting it via CGA and failing that small claims. Big rant coming as soon as I get my phone back.


Well they reckon its only 6% of diagnostics is down to "LIQUID DAMAGE" well her is 2 in one day so think a few porkies are coming out of Telecoms mouths

857 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  # 669223 7-Aug-2012 19:19
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fletchaman: Well they reckon its only 6% of diagnostics is down to "LIQUID DAMAGE" well her is 2 in one day so think a few porkies are coming out of Telecoms mouths


I agree with you completely. I have no confidence in Telegistics to do their job. The phone was sent back to Telecom Broadway yesterday, and yet despite asking twice for emailed photos and being told they'd be on their site last Friday I've yet to receive them.





 


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