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  # 950890 12-Dec-2013 11:41
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jeffnz:
KiwiNZ:
jeffnz:
KiwiNZ: They may have been playing with an Android device but the new owners will never put it in production and do not need to.


You have, as yet, to answer my questions.

Why, if they are so successful with Windows phones , did they sell to Microsoft.

How much of the phone market has Nokia lost since smartphones were introduced.

your replies seem to avoid answering my posts leading me to believe your arguments are unsupported. I may be wrong of course




I am not a board member of Nokia so no inside info as with any New Zealander, however Nokia arrested their slide into bankruptcy with the move to Windows Phone. MSFT has shown over the last few years its desire to diversify, they have 
increasingly been moving into hardware especially mobile hardware, then the move to phones is logical ,also it is logical for them to buy an existing operation as opposed to reinventing the wheel. It is further logical that they purchase the biggest vendor
of Windows phone thus securing their market vehicle from being picked up by a competitor. Why would Nokia sell, ROI would be my first clue.


I think you'll find the main reason they were doing ok with MS was the $20 per unit sold support they were getting paid, minus the $10 for use of software and thats money in the bank.

A quick search on Google shows you are mostly incorrect and it was sold due to huge losses and a bleak future in mobile handests. Investors seem to think it was due to mis management by the CEO who stood down but is going to MS with the mobile phone side of it.

It makes for interesting reading to say the least.


Links ?




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  # 950932 12-Dec-2013 12:29
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KiwiNZ:
jeffnz:
KiwiNZ:
jeffnz:
KiwiNZ: They may have been playing with an Android device but the new owners will never put it in production and do not need to.


You have, as yet, to answer my questions.

Why, if they are so successful with Windows phones , did they sell to Microsoft.

How much of the phone market has Nokia lost since smartphones were introduced.

your replies seem to avoid answering my posts leading me to believe your arguments are unsupported. I may be wrong of course




I am not a board member of Nokia so no inside info as with any New Zealander, however Nokia arrested their slide into bankruptcy with the move to Windows Phone. MSFT has shown over the last few years its desire to diversify, they have 
increasingly been moving into hardware especially mobile hardware, then the move to phones is logical ,also it is logical for them to buy an existing operation as opposed to reinventing the wheel. It is further logical that they purchase the biggest vendor
of Windows phone thus securing their market vehicle from being picked up by a competitor. Why would Nokia sell, ROI would be my first clue.


I think you'll find the main reason they were doing ok with MS was the $20 per unit sold support they were getting paid, minus the $10 for use of software and thats money in the bank.

A quick search on Google shows you are mostly incorrect and it was sold due to huge losses and a bleak future in mobile handests. Investors seem to think it was due to mis management by the CEO who stood down but is going to MS with the mobile phone side of it.

It makes for interesting reading to say the least.


Links ?



sure here you go link




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  # 950958 12-Dec-2013 13:36
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jeffnz:
KiwiNZ:
jeffnz:
KiwiNZ:
jeffnz:
KiwiNZ: They may have been playing with an Android device but the new owners will never put it in production and do not need to.


You have, as yet, to answer my questions.

Why, if they are so successful with Windows phones , did they sell to Microsoft.

How much of the phone market has Nokia lost since smartphones were introduced.

your replies seem to avoid answering my posts leading me to believe your arguments are unsupported. I may be wrong of course




I am not a board member of Nokia so no inside info as with any New Zealander, however Nokia arrested their slide into bankruptcy with the move to Windows Phone. MSFT has shown over the last few years its desire to diversify, they have 
increasingly been moving into hardware especially mobile hardware, then the move to phones is logical ,also it is logical for them to buy an existing operation as opposed to reinventing the wheel. It is further logical that they purchase the biggest vendor
of Windows phone thus securing their market vehicle from being picked up by a competitor. Why would Nokia sell, ROI would be my first clue.


I think you'll find the main reason they were doing ok with MS was the $20 per unit sold support they were getting paid, minus the $10 for use of software and thats money in the bank.

A quick search on Google shows you are mostly incorrect and it was sold due to huge losses and a bleak future in mobile handests. Investors seem to think it was due to mis management by the CEO who stood down but is going to MS with the mobile phone side of it.

It makes for interesting reading to say the least.


Links ?



sure here you go link


I will leave it at that 




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 951030 12-Dec-2013 15:36
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KiwiNZ: 

Nokia make excellent phones with an equally excellent OS, their low end phones offer so much more at low cost compared to the competition thanks to WinPhone 8's management of RAM. The switch to WinPhone has been very successful for Nokia
why change if its working so well, that would just confuse the market for them and split their resources.



I agree that Nokia make excellent phones but to say "The switch to WinPhone has been very successful for Nokia" Really?

Tell me what was Nokia's worldwide smartphone market share prior to Nokia adopting WinPhone?

I'll save you the bother of looking that up.



Prior to the WinPhone announcement (Feb 2011), in 3Q2010 Symbian had 36.3%  and WinPhone 2.7%

After the announcement, in 3Q2011 Symbian went down to 16.9%, WinPhone 1.5%

Even though WinPhone has grown it's market share in the last year by 156%  to 3.6% you can't be serious when you say a 3.6% market share against 36.3% or even 16.9% is a success.

P.S. It's easy to get stellar percentage growth when you have very small figures.

NikT: I'm quite interested in seeing what its UI ends up looking like. Nokia has a real flair for software design in places, and hasn't gotten to express that terribly much in Windows Phone. The N9 was gorgeous.
 Agreed the N9 was/is very good and runs rings around WinPhone in many ways, it's real pity it never got a better run.





Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
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  # 951057 12-Dec-2013 16:04
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Technofreak:
KiwiNZ: 

Nokia make excellent phones with an equally excellent OS, their low end phones offer so much more at low cost compared to the competition thanks to WinPhone 8's management of RAM. The switch to WinPhone has been very successful for Nokia
why change if its working so well, that would just confuse the market for them and split their resources.



I agree that Nokia make excellent phones but to say "The switch to WinPhone has been very successful for Nokia" Really?

Tell me what was Nokia's worldwide smartphone market share prior to Nokia adopting WinPhone?

I'll save you the bother of looking that up.



Prior to the WinPhone announcement (Feb 2011), in 3Q2010 Symbian had 36.3%  and WinPhone 2.7%

After the announcement, in 3Q2011 Symbian went down to 16.9%, WinPhone 1.5%

Even though WinPhone has grown it's market share in the last year by 156%  to 3.6% you can't be serious when you say a 3.6% market share against 36.3% or even 16.9% is a success.

P.S. It's easy to get stellar percentage growth when you have very small figures.

NikT: I'm quite interested in seeing what its UI ends up looking like. Nokia has a real flair for software design in places, and hasn't gotten to express that terribly much in Windows Phone. The N9 was gorgeous.
 Agreed the N9 was/is very good and runs rings around WinPhone in many ways, it's real pity it never got a better run.



Symbian was declining and had market resistance if Nokia had stayed with Symbian they would be no more, if they had gone with Android I believe they would also be gone.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 951065 12-Dec-2013 16:16
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KiwiNZ: Symbian was declining and had market resistance if Nokia had stayed with Symbian they would be no more, if they had gone with Android I believe they would also be gone.


Yes, Symbian was in decline, Nokia had a replacement OS, Meego, which at it's time of release was/is far superior to the WinPhone that replaced it and Symbian. Nokia would not have disappeared without WinPhone in fact is easy to argue Nokia has declined even further since the introduction of WinPhone.

You failed to answer my question. How can a decline from 36.3% market share to 3.6% be considered a success?  

Nokia had a very loyal customer base but that base hasn't translated into WinPhone sales.






Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


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  # 951085 12-Dec-2013 16:31
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Technofreak:
KiwiNZ: Symbian was declining and had market resistance if Nokia had stayed with Symbian they would be no more, if they had gone with Android I believe they would also be gone.


Yes, Symbian was in decline, Nokia had a replacement OS, Meego, which at it's time of release was/is far superior to the WinPhone that replaced it and Symbian. Nokia would not have disappeared without WinPhone in fact is easy to argue Nokia has declined even further since the introduction of WinPhone.

You failed to answer my question. How can a decline from 36.3% market share to 3.6% be considered a success?  

Nokia had a very loyal customer base but that base hasn't translated into WinPhone sales.




It is a success because if Nokia had not gone with Windows Phone they would be history now.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  # 951109 12-Dec-2013 16:58
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KiwiNZ:
Technofreak:
KiwiNZ: Symbian was declining and had market resistance if Nokia had stayed with Symbian they would be no more, if they had gone with Android I believe they would also be gone.


Yes, Symbian was in decline, Nokia had a replacement OS, Meego, which at it's time of release was/is far superior to the WinPhone that replaced it and Symbian. Nokia would not have disappeared without WinPhone in fact is easy to argue Nokia has declined even further since the introduction of WinPhone.

You failed to answer my question. How can a decline from 36.3% market share to 3.6% be considered a success?  

Nokia had a very loyal customer base but that base hasn't translated into WinPhone sales.




It is a success because if Nokia had not gone with Windows Phone they would be history now.


That's a bit like a patient who is otherwise fit but suddenly needs heart surgery, comes out of the operation and is left in a coma due to unexpected complications.  He would have died without the op, he is still alive but might as well not be.  I'm not sure I'd call that a success.

Some might say, with such a plummet in market share since they introduced WinPhone, Nokia might was well be history.  

Sadly I think it's not long before Nokia will be history in the mobile phone market place.

I don't put much faith in Microsoft making it in the mobile market place plus they only have the licence to use the Nokia name for the non Smartphones for 10 years and it's very likely Microsoft will drop the Nokia name altogether from it's smartphone line up in the very near future.  Either way Nokia will disappear as a smartphone, enjoy it while you can.




Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


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  # 951112 12-Dec-2013 17:09
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Technofreak:
KiwiNZ:
Technofreak:
KiwiNZ: Symbian was declining and had market resistance if Nokia had stayed with Symbian they would be no more, if they had gone with Android I believe they would also be gone.


Yes, Symbian was in decline, Nokia had a replacement OS, Meego, which at it's time of release was/is far superior to the WinPhone that replaced it and Symbian. Nokia would not have disappeared without WinPhone in fact is easy to argue Nokia has declined even further since the introduction of WinPhone.

You failed to answer my question. How can a decline from 36.3% market share to 3.6% be considered a success?  

Nokia had a very loyal customer base but that base hasn't translated into WinPhone sales.




It is a success because if Nokia had not gone with Windows Phone they would be history now.


That's a bit like a patient who is otherwise fit but suddenly needs heart surgery, comes out of the operation and is left in a coma due to unexpected complications.  He would have died without the op, he is still alive but might as well not be.  I'm not sure I'd call that a success.

Some might say, with such a plummet in market share since they introduced WinPhone, Nokia might was well be history.  

Sadly I think it's not long before Nokia will be history in the mobile phone market place.

I don't put much faith in Microsoft making it in the mobile market place plus they only have the licence to use the Nokia name for the non Smartphones for 10 years and it's very likely Microsoft will drop the Nokia name altogether from it's smartphone line up in the very near future.  Either way Nokia will disappear as a smartphone, enjoy it while you can.


That may well be the case, nothing is forever, I hope it does survive and grow the market needs something to counter the Samsung scourge.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  # 951130 12-Dec-2013 17:43
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Samsung, like Apple, MS and other big companies, are jut doing what they should, make money for their stakeholders it isn't a crime and what most of us do.

Why do you say scourge




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  # 951139 12-Dec-2013 17:55
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jeffnz: Samsung, like Apple, MS and other big companies, are jut doing what they should, make money for their stakeholders it isn't a crime and what most of us do.

Why do you say scourge


Samsung have little regard for IP, very poor product support and their quality has diminished markedly.

But this is a different story.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  # 951145 12-Dec-2013 18:00
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yes you are right it is however given you haven't posted anything to back up you posts on here I don't hold much hope you could come up with anything factual to back up what you say so just opinion really.

which you are totally entitled to :)




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  # 951150 12-Dec-2013 18:10
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jeffnz: yes you are right it is however given you haven't posted anything to back up you posts on here I don't hold much hope you could come up with anything factual to back up what you say so just opinion really.

which you are totally entitled to :)


I won't respond to aggression.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 




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  # 951156 12-Dec-2013 18:25
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it wasn't aggression it was an observation, but if you think it was then you responded.

but this is all Off topic so for that I apologise





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  # 952584 15-Dec-2013 15:24
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The rumour of a Nokia Android phone has been floating around for a while certainly well before the annoucement that Microsoft was to buy Nokias handset division.

One story was that Nokia wasn't happy with the way Microsoft was progressing the development of WinPhone.  Nokia's licence period for WinPhone was drawing to a close and they were looking at a plan B.

However perhaps the Finns had a cunning plan.  The deal for Microsoft to buy the handset division had been on the table for a while and had seemingly gone cold.  Perhaps the portent of an Android phone was just the bait to get Microsoft to clinch the deal.

Either way I don't see an Android Nokia any time soon.

However Microsoft only has the exclusive use of the Nokia name for 30 months and Nokia cannot use the Nokia brand on their own mobile devices until after 31 Dec 2015.  I'd say watch what happens after that date.  Even then I'd expect that if they do anything that perhaps they'll team up with the likes of Jolla.



As I was writing this post I found this http://gigaom.com/2013/12/11/why-microsoft-probably-wont-go-through-with-nokias-android-plans/






Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


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