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sonyxperiageek
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  #1165941 31-Oct-2014 15:06
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Shoes2468:
sbiddle: Why has NFC payments never taken off? One word - standards. Because nobody could agree on a standard things never progressed. Debates over whether embedded or UICC stored secure elements were the best approach has caused the industry to spend years debating how things could be actually work.

As for a solution? Semble works with the Airpoints card (as well as a number of other cards in NZ) and will be publically launching in Q1 2015. There is also another bank in NZ that will be highly likely to launch a HCE based solution into production.



Solution - Apple Pay... job done


Not everyone has an Apple device. In fact, most of the mobile market share is actually held by Android.




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freitasm
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  #1165943 31-Oct-2014 15:09
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Behodar: I think I saw a news article a couple of months ago about NFC EFTPOS, but I don't have a link for it. I think it said coming 2015.


Semble, as mentioned by Steve, and posted here on Geekzone.




 

 

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sxz

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  #1165979 31-Oct-2014 15:36
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sonyxperiageek:
ZombieJohn:
Ham: Jam your Paywave card between your phone and a case. Sorted.

They guy at the petrol station will think your cool when you "pay with your phone"!


Doesn't quite work as well as you would hope. The phones pick up the nfc chip anytime it is unlocked and so unless you want to get spammed with a notification on your phone as it tries to deal with the nfc information in direct contact with it then that is a no go.

How do I know? Because I already tried it with my bus card ;)


I think a bus card is different to a Visa PayWave card.

I've got a Nexus 5 here and ASB recently sent me a Visa PayTag Sticker (PayWave enabled) to stick onto the back of my phone. It's worked a charm and hasn't interfered with my NFC at all, even when I want to connect the Nexus 5 to a NFC-capable speaker.


Oh I like this.  Is this ASB specific or Visa specific do you know?

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  #1165983 31-Oct-2014 15:37
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ajobbins
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  #1166021 31-Oct-2014 16:36
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The main issues with UICC based secure elements are:
a) Your payment provider has to have a commercial agreement with your carrier. The carriers want a cut, and it adds to the cost of processing.
b) Because of the above, if you don't happen to use the carrier your financial institution has partners with, you're out of luck
c) The pairing of payment provider and carrier means you are probably only ever going to have access to NFC payments from one provider.

HCE is, I believe, a far better solution. I have it working on my Nexus 5 and a Visa Debit card issued by Credit Union Australia, who were the first in Asia-Pacific to launch a Visa HCE PayWave solution.

As sbiddle pointed out, it does need an internet connection - however that's rarely a problem, and I believe it caches a token in advance (while you do have a connection), allowing you to complete a maximum of 1 transaction while offline before needed a connection again at some point before your next transaction.




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  #1166066 31-Oct-2014 17:46
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sonyxperiageek: ASB recently sent me a Visa PayTag Sticker (PayWave enabled) to stick onto the back of my phone.


When one talks about MOBILE-ENABLED PAYMENTS a sticker is probably not what people have in mind. People want to be able to pay with their mobile devices, see the transactions and have a way to make the program authenticate you before payment - something a sticker won't do.

And seriously? "Make contactless payments with your phone?" What if I want to stick that to my business card, to my shoes? The "phone" in that is gimmick to grab attention but in no way a sticker is a "phone" payment system.





 

 

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afe66
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  #1166084 31-Oct-2014 19:19
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This whole thing is meh.

I already have card and PIN.

Don't need to use my $1000 phone.

This morning it took 8 seconds to pay for my coffee using eftpos. (Time from enter after PIN to accept - timed it) I didn't have to pay any extra fee. (only matter of time before all these systems add 2% charge).

This system is bring driven by Apple and Google to address a problem we don't have.

I can't see why I want in introduce another party between me and my money/bank.

Cynically,

A.

(other opinions are available)


 
 
 
 


richms
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  #1166169 31-Oct-2014 21:53
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I dont like entering my pin number, which is the only thing needed with my card to access potentially several $1000 into a terminal in plain sight of other people. Worst are the supermarket ones that are strapped to a post on the checkout ridiculosly high up.

With no 2 factor or similar for high value transactions, the best is to make low value transactions just need the card. paywave does that, but places that don't take credit will probably never get that.

Also the crap old terminals that some places have where they have to insert on their side are ridiculous. IMO the banks should prohibit terminals where the customer doesn't retain their card at all times.




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sonyxperiageek
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  #1166198 31-Oct-2014 22:34
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freitasm:
sonyxperiageek: ASB recently sent me a Visa PayTag Sticker (PayWave enabled) to stick onto the back of my phone.


When one talks about MOBILE-ENABLED PAYMENTS a sticker is probably not what people have in mind. People want to be able to pay with their mobile devices, see the transactions and have a way to make the program authenticate you before payment - something a sticker won't do.

And seriously? "Make contactless payments with your phone?" What if I want to stick that to my business card, to my shoes? The "phone" in that is gimmick to grab attention but in no way a sticker is a "phone" payment system.



No it doesn't. And that was what I was thinking too. I was merely responding to the previous claim of sticking a card in between your phone that might interfere with its NFC capability.




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lchiu7
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  #1167662 3-Nov-2014 14:18
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Just to add my two cents.

When Google Wallet first came out I had a Galaxy Nexus. I was keen to try out Google Wallet so signed up. At the time Google Wallet was a debit card transaction in that you used a credit card or US bank to top it up and then payments came out it. Google also topped up all accounts with a $10 for trying it out and I added $30 from my US credit card.
 
I was able to successfully conduct two GW transactions in Wellington, once at a local Sushi place and once with Leuven. It was cool that you could bring up Google Wallet on your phone and instantly see the transaction you made.

However once Google changed Wallet to allow credit cards it no longer worked. This is because they don't do international transactions (so even with a US credit card) and you can't add a local CC. When it worked it was a debit card transaction and traversed a different network.

I have an interesting experience with NFC stickers. When I recently renewed my US credit card I noticed it was not Paywave enabled. This is a large US company so I was surprised. I asked for a NFC enabled card and was sent a sticker (the same thickness of a credit card) to stick to the back of my credit card!   Sometimes the US banking processes can be quite backwards.




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VoltMaster
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  #1186026 1-Dec-2014 07:48
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ajobbins: The main issues with UICC based secure elements are:
a) Your payment provider has to have a commercial agreement with your carrier. The carriers want a cut, and it adds to the cost of processing.
b) Because of the above, if you don't happen to use the carrier your financial institution has partners with, you're out of luck
c) The pairing of payment provider and carrier means you are probably only ever going to have access to NFC payments from one provider.

HCE is, I believe, a far better solution. I have it working on my Nexus 5 and a Visa Debit card issued by Credit Union Australia, who were the first in Asia-Pacific to launch a Visa HCE PayWave solution.

As sbiddle pointed out, it does need an internet connection - however that's rarely a problem, and I believe it caches a token in advance (while you do have a connection), allowing you to complete a maximum of 1 transaction while offline before needed a connection again at some point before your next transaction.


You may want to be careful with your assumptions there. Semble doesn't rely on a 1:1 relationship with the provider and carrier. Nor do the providers or carriers 'clip the ticket'. A retailer is charged exactly the same for a Semble payment as they would when you pay with your plastic card, the user isn't charged extra by their bank or telco and Semble are not running a model where they cash in payments made with the product. Nuff said.

HCE has its merits but it is limited when it comes to making payments when your phone is off and security. HCE is still an immature tech and hasn't been proven in a mass deployment. HCE also isn't suitable for certain types of NFC transactions - Auckland Transport (AT Hop) being one of them.

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