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3403 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1979922 19-Mar-2018 15:22
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qwerty123:

 

Google should just be more strict on app compatibility in play market. If app is not compatible with specific OS feature, e.g. Doze, it should not be available for install on Android 6/7/8/etc. May be that will force devs to update apps.

 

 

Totally agree, this is why devs didnt want to port to Windows because it had standards lol. The apps I do have on Windows have never had bugs.

 

As for apps not running with DOZE, thats nobodies fault but the App Devs and the people they sucked into buying their app.

 

But you could also state the Android One as a platform all meet certain features and any apps that cant work with them should say so on the play store.

 

Id be asking for my money back on the App and price off the phone from the Developer.

 

Id not want to be a droid developer, at least iOS you can QA quite easily just to iterations, and the same for WIn10 which was the most profesional OS, only now we know why they buried it. Android is a mine field for developers.

 

But if you stick to what Android One delivers, ie stock android, and state you cannot garuntee it works on any OS skins like FlyMe etc, then the Dev has some Basis to develop to. Thats all I was meaning.


3403 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1979925 19-Mar-2018 15:24
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Oubadah:

 

Does anyone know why the Check For Updates process is so inconsistent in the amount of time it spends checking?

 

 

Im not sure about that, but I believe updates to be queued for delivery by the OEM or Google. I get what you mean, like one time it takes one second the next time you check it takes 10 seconds etc. It could be their server latency......


 
 
 
 


3409 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

  # 1980091 19-Mar-2018 19:35
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TeaLeaf:

 

Totally agree, this is why devs didnt want to port to Windows because it had standards lol. The apps I do have on Windows have never had bugs.

 

I doubt it had anything to do with standards.  More to do with the abysmal market share.

 

Admittedly I never tried Window 10 on a mobile device but I have used Windows 8. While it was a nice OS in many ways, it was a crippled OS. For example apps wouldn't run in the background. Certainly some apps didn't have the functionality they had on other OS's. The way Microsoft had things locked down it wasn't an incentive for developers to port their apps to Windows - another reason for the lack of apps.

 

TeaLeaf:

 

Id not want to be a droid developer, at least iOS you can QA quite easily just to iterations, and the same for WIn10 which was the most profesional OS, only now we know why they buried it. Android is a mine field for developers.

 

 

The big difference between Android and iOS and Windows is the number or variety of devices apps need to be developed for. There's only a small number of iOS and Windows devices.  There's a significantly bigger number of Android devices with varying screen sizes chipsets etc. That's why it has been a minefield up till now developing for Android.

 

Tell me please why Win 10 was buried?





Sony Xperia X running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS 
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
Nokia N1
Dell Inspiron 14z i5


676 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1980100 19-Mar-2018 19:48
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Technofreak:

 

Certainly some apps didn't have the functionality they had on other OS's.

 

 

The worst part was that the Windows Mobile versions of some of Microsoft's own apps had less functionality than the versions Microsoft released for competing platforms.


gzt

11033 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1980104 19-Mar-2018 19:59
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Technofreak: There's only a small number of iOS

Even that's becoming a pita.

3403 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1980150 19-Mar-2018 21:19
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Technofreak:

 

it was a crippled OS. For example apps wouldn't run in the background. Certainly some apps didn't have the functionality they had on other OS's.

 

 

Really? That was one of the things I truely loved about Win10 mobile, it ran apps in the background, unlike iOS which would just cache apps, and when you came back to it, they would reload them. Win 8.1 though I didnt use a lot so perhaps that is your difference in experience with the OS.

 

Win10 ran live tiles also which was extremely helpful.

 

And I personally found Office much more productive on Win10 than iOS or Android.

 

As for being locked down, thats the beauty of the OS, its controlled by the most successful software company in the world and you had to meet proper SDLC standards, which is kind of what we are talking about here.

 

Personally I find all these silly novelty apps a pain in the butt. Id rather buy real software from proper Software houses like MS, or Adobe etc. Companies that understand the SDLC and that QA means yes you have to test your software on every device you are releasing it for. Which means for Android, every single phone and tablet available, which means a lot of cost, a LOT. Which is why we have so much crapware that cant even work with DOZE.

 

Id rather have less apps and more quality. Unfortunately MS achieved the single OS on 3 device types with Win10, but now are aiming at one device to replace 3 devices with Andromeda. Recent acitivty with patents etc give the feel its coming. But I can understand at this point in technology if they pull out as it maybe ahead of its time. The surface devices are showing up in so many TV shows replacing the expected macbook which hasnt been refreshed in a decade and has been running a 15w dual core with no dGPU yet its called a Pro..... MS has to price the surface devices to avoid OEM backfire, but still nobody is producing devices close to as good and asking close to the price point. Quad core CPU, with a gtx1050 in a 2n1 that has 15 hour battery life and one of the best iNK experiences available for Pen and one of the most glorious 13inch displays available outside the AW13 OLED (which is more a 15" form factor in reality, but still, gorgeous). Then the Surface Studio is just orgasmic to use as a designer, its a niche product and most will scoff at the price but thats the market its not aimed at. The next best device would possibly be the spectre 15 with the mx150. dGPUs are needed to enhance photo and video editing. Yet you can pay the same money for a dual core with no gpu and extremely bland long in the tooth styling. Im really hoping apple can some how get the 8th gen intel with an mx150 into the 13 but knowing their speed to market and being locked in with AMD im not hopeful. As I enjoy the OSX for general browsing and desktop functioning.

 

My belief is its iPhone that keeping Apple to doing another downfall. MS prop them up more than people realise.

 

So my point getting back to phones is, I think the best think Apple could do, if they are serious and not just riding out the propaganda advertising wave until a slow decline, is to redesign the source code around the touch interface to use OSX as the OS for the phone and the pad pro. The a10x cpu/gpu is close to the power of intel 8th gen. The problem with their Ipad pro is, the market its aimed at, artist and media professionals, is they cant run desktop level art, photo and video level software on a phone OS. And to add to this for the phone it means you have no more stupid syncing which is so 1999. If they could copy what MS acheived with one OS on 3 devices I think their iPad Pro would be taken more seriously, because its screen is gorgeous to work with, its crippled by iOS. And if they could get the 13" to a Pro level, you have all 3 devices running life together as one. But I suspect thats beyond Apples foresight and current capability. But id buy all 3 again if it happened. I still have a phone simply for QA purposes and a pad.

 

This is where a singular device like MS Andromeda would replace the need for so many devices, carrying ultrabook power in your phone. Samsung Dex is a very rudimentry version of how it would operate as a desktop.

 

Will it come together, no idea. But Im not sure why they would acheive the goal of 1 OS for all platforms, only to buy the biggest phone OEM and then let it fade out with no effort into advertising etc for no reason.


676 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1980159 19-Mar-2018 21:30
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TeaLeaf:

 

Personally I find all these silly novelty apps a pain in the butt. Id rather buy real software from proper Software houses like MS, or Adobe etc. Companies that understand the SDLC and that QA means yes you have to test your software on every device you are releasing it for. Which means for Android, every single phone and tablet available, which means a lot of cost, a LOT. Which is why we have so much crapware that cant even work with DOZE.

 

 

Did you miss the part where I gave Microsoft's Authenticator app as an example of one of the apps that can't work with doze?


 
 
 
 


3403 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1980334 20-Mar-2018 09:10
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Oubadah:

 

Did you miss the part where I gave Microsoft's Authenticator app as an example of one of the apps that can't work with doze?

 

 

Im referring to if they had a platform of functions developers can build to as a standard development environment. So the onus is on the app developer and the OEM can say these apps are garunteed to work, anything else is crapware stay clear lol

 

Also its a grey area when you get into is it the phones UI/os skin or is it the app.

 

Hence why so many people prefer STOCK android like the new Nokias.

 

I would have thought Nokia would have done better QA work on something like Authenticator with DOZE though. But without know the code its hard to point the finger.

 

Is it just Autheticator by the way?

 

Somebody else with same problem, obviously going to be a common theme. Have you spoken to Nokia?

 

https://community.phones.nokia.com/support/discussions/topics/7000012185/page/2?url_locale=

 

 


676 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1980512 20-Mar-2018 14:12
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TeaLeaf:

 

Im referring to if they had a platform of functions developers can build to as a standard development environment. So the onus is on the app developer and the OEM can say these apps are garunteed to work, anything else is crapware stay clear lol

 

Also its a grey area when you get into is it the phones UI/os skin or is it the app.

 

Hence why so many people prefer STOCK android like the new Nokias.

 

I would have thought Nokia would have done better QA work on something like Authenticator with DOZE though. But without know the code its hard to point the finger.

 

Is it just Autheticator by the way?

 

Somebody else with same problem, obviously going to be a common theme. Have you spoken to Nokia?

 

https://community.phones.nokia.com/support/discussions/topics/7000012185/page/2?url_locale=

 

 

That's me, from when I was conflating the doze issue with a now resolved Nokia issue. Let me make this clear, because it was confusing even to me: There were two issues with notifications on the Nokia 6:

 

1. A bug that affected notifications for SMS, alarms, reminders etc. The topic of that Nokia forum thread. This has been fixed (although it took Nokia months to do it, another answer to your question "why the Nokia hate").
2. The doze problem, which also effects notifications.

 

There were two, now there is only one. Initially, it was difficult to distinguish between the two issues, but I'm only talking about the doze problem now. In this case, Authenticator's delayed notifications are being caused by doze.

 

You were drawing a false dichotomy between "crapware" "novelty apps" that don't work with doze, and apps from "proper software houses" like Microsoft which you imagined would never have such problems. I'm disproving that by pointing to an app which in no way fits the description of a "novelty app", is developed by Microsoft, yet still doesn't work with doze.

 

Here are three other Microsoft apps that do not notify properly with doze: Outlook, Word and OneDrive. I just retested them today.

 

 


3403 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1980626 20-Mar-2018 18:06
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No that was just a generalised statement on crapware which really ends up becoming bloatware. Not related to your situation.

 

Well hopefully enough people have complained about it that it gets patched.

 

 


120 posts

Master Geek


  # 1981082 21-Mar-2018 15:56
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Oubadah:

 

I was going to suggest this before, but I was conflicted because I loathe draconian moves like that when they happen elsewhere. If you lock things down too far, you'll stifle the app market. That's why I thought a good compromise would be to just allow users to disable Doze if they don't want it. However, in this case I think forcing it is the right approach. Maybe Google could do something about the extra cost, if you're right about that.

 

 

It seems Google already started working in this direction. Android P SDK has: 

 

MIN_SUPPORTED_TARGET_SDK_INT

 

Android P Developer Preview

 

int MIN_SUPPORTED_TARGET_SDK_INT

 

The current lowest supported value of app target SDK. Applications targeting lower values will fail to install and run. Its possible values are defined in Build.VERSION_CODES.

 

Right now it's set to SDK Level 17, Android 4.2.2


676 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 1982048 23-Mar-2018 13:12
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qwerty123:

 

It seems Google already started working in this direction. Android P SDK has: 

 

MIN_SUPPORTED_TARGET_SDK_INT Android P Developer Preview

 

int MIN_SUPPORTED_TARGET_SDK_INT

 

The current lowest supported value of app target SDK. Applications targeting lower values will fail to install and run. Its possible values are defined in Build.VERSION_CODES.

 

Right now it's set to SDK Level 17, Android 4.2.2

 

 

That's promising, but for me there's still one elephant in the room: Gmail's notifications are being suppressed by doze. I've had people tell me that their Gmail notifications are all instant on X phone and Y phone, but it could easily be a case of their usage patterns masking the issue, and there's no shortage of other people complaining about delayed Gmail notifications on Nougat+. But the main reason I'm sure it's "normal" behavior (and not some Nokia 6 quirk) is that Google says outright that there are High and Normal priority levels for GCM, and that Normal results in delayed notifications. They specifically say that email should get the Normal priority (ridiculous IMO), and presumably that's how they've configured Gmail.

 

So even if all apps start using GCM, if they follow Google's guidelines, it looks like email (and god knows what else) notifications will still be intentionally crippled.


45 posts

Geek


  # 1983315 26-Mar-2018 11:28
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Im waiting on the 7 plus, not going to wait for NZ to get it takes too long here so will get my family to buy one in the UK and ship it over!


3403 posts

Uber Geek


  # 1983380 26-Mar-2018 12:27
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chunkybeats:

 

Im waiting on the 7 plus, not going to wait for NZ to get it takes too long here so will get my family to buy one in the UK and ship it over!

 

 

Yes Im swaying to the 7 from Sirocco, although just saw a Sirocco review that made me dribble. I do prefer 16:9 but not such a biggy with LCDs like the 7.

 

The only issue I have with the 7 is it has some bezel top and bottom and then the navigation buttons are capacitive, using up .2" screen. Im pretty sure you can turn them off and use swipe navigation instead, but I feel with the bezel there was room to put the buttons there. It turns it from a 6 to a 5.8". But of course in 16:9 it will be more like a 5.7" anyway. So its not a huge biggy, just more a "i wish they had" thing.

 


45 posts

Geek


  # 1983402 26-Mar-2018 13:03
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Im drooling looking at that photo!!!

 

 

 

I have been a long term Sony user and my old Xperia Z screen broke which was 5 years old but looking at what Sony are doing this year I am for the first time put off in their direction hence why Im liking what Nokia are going at the moment. Not tempted by Samsung or Apple or others, always caveats with other brands in which are good phones but lack features that I want!


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