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661 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1926322 28-Dec-2017 20:51
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freitasm: I think it is aa combination of crappy Android plus crappy apps. Not specific to Nokia. Huawei is not great either.

 

Well you'd expect Google to not be making crappy apps, and you'd also expect Google to be able to make their own mail app work with their own OS properly.

 

But I'm confused as to what is causing what here. I already had another thread where I was ranting about the aggressive dozing of mail apps and idiotic GCM prioritization choices, and I thought that the mail apps were behaving "normally"/"as intended", but since then I've had Pixel owners tell me that they get Gmail notifications no matter how long their phones have been idle. Since the Nokia had/has notification issues with other apps, I started to think it was Nokia's fault.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1926619 29-Dec-2017 17:39
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I've read through Android dev documentation and played a bit with my Nokia 6 using adb. Disabling Background Activity Manager and/or adding apps into whitelist does not disable Doze and whitelisted apps are still have restrictions, their syncs and jobs deferred to Doze maintenance windows. Periodically Android exits Doze for a short period of time (maintenance window) to let apps complete deferred activities. For apps there are two ways to access network either support GCM service which maintains persistent network connection while system in Doze or do the job during maintenance windows. If an app does not use Doze-compatible API the only way for it is using maintenance windows.

 

GCM service network connection and maintenance windows connections can be affected by Wifi disconnecting when phone is idle. You can set Wifi to be Always on in Advanced Wifi settings. Another possible thing is your wifi router aggressively closing inactive network connections. GCM service sends keep-alive packets every 5min when on Wifi and every 27min when on Cellular. You can either adjust settings on your router or Android keep-alive intervals, there is an app for that.

 

What's your "Keep WiFi on during sleep" setting? Do you restrict any apps to use Cellular in background? I have Wifi Always On and also all apps providing important notifications for me, like Gmail, Messages, Skype, has no cellular restrictions. Just wonder if you have restricted cellular usage and disconnected Wifi while your phone is idle.


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1926637 29-Dec-2017 18:42
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qwerty123:

 

I've read through Android dev documentation and played a bit with my Nokia 6 using adb. Disabling Background Activity Manager and/or adding apps into whitelist does not disable Doze and whitelisted apps are still have restrictions, their syncs and jobs deferred to Doze maintenance windows. Periodically Android exits Doze for a short period of time (maintenance window) to let apps complete deferred activities. For apps there are two ways to access network either support GCM service which maintains persistent network connection while system in Doze or do the job during maintenance windows. If an app does not use Doze-compatible API the only way for it is using maintenance windows.

 

GCM service network connection and maintenance windows connections can be affected by Wifi disconnecting when phone is idle. You can set Wifi to be Always on in Advanced Wifi settings. Another possible thing is your wifi router aggressively closing inactive network connections. GCM service sends keep-alive packets every 5min when on Wifi and every 27min when on Cellular. You can either adjust settings on your router or Android keep-alive intervals, there is an app for that.

 

What's your "Keep WiFi on during sleep" setting? Do you restrict any apps to use Cellular in background? I have Wifi Always On and also all apps providing important notifications for me, like Gmail, Messages, Skype, has no cellular restrictions. Just wonder if you have restricted cellular usage and disconnected Wifi while your phone is idle.

 

 

Thanks, that has helped a lot.

 

I had a look at the documentation that I think you're referring to, and the maintenance window thing fits perfectly with the Outlook behavior I described in my second-to-last post:

 

"Idle devices in Doze periodically enter a maintenance window, during which apps can complete pending activities (syncs, jobs, etc.). Doze then resumes sleep for a longer period of time, followed by another maintenance window. The platform continues the Doze sleep/maintenance sequence, increasing the length of idle each time, until a maximum of a few hours of sleep time is reached"

 

https://source.android.com/devices/tech/power/mgmt

 

So GCM service support is going to be one of those opt-in things that 50% of devs will never bother with by the sound of it. If that's the case, at this point Android is basically dead to me. For my usage patterns Doze is a deal-breaker. It makes too many assumptions (like that third party devs will bother supporting it properly, and that a physically immobile phone means that the user is not going to be relying on it for timely notifications).

 

Keep Wi-Fi on during sleep is something I always ensure is enabled when I set up a phone. I haven't applied any cellular restrictions to apps.


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1926755 29-Dec-2017 21:30
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Why not use Google stock apps? Gmail can pull mail from Outlook/Exchange, Google Authenticator works with Microsoft 2FA as well. Just wonder why alarms and calendar events don't come though while your phone is idle. 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1926769 29-Dec-2017 22:13
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qwerty123:

 

Why not use Google stock apps? Gmail can pull mail from Outlook/Exchange, Google Authenticator works with Microsoft 2FA as well.

 

 

I don't want to be stuck using only Google's apps. There are more apps that I need to notify that I haven't mentioned yet (because I haven't done much testing on them).

 

As for Gmail, there's still a great big question mark on that. Gmail doesn't notify at all during long doze periods. According to the reddit post I linked to somewhere earlier in this thread, this is because of the GCM priority (lower than IMs etc.) given to mail. But like I said, some Pixel owners are convinced they get instant Gmail notifications always. I'm starting to think they just haven't tested it properly (ie. with the phone static).

 

qwerty123: Just wonder why alarms and calendar events don't come though while your phone is idle. 

 

I think they do now with Oreo. At least all the alarms and reminders I've tried so far (haven't done calendar yet) have worked on the beta. Some people say the issue is quite inconsistent (although for me it was very consistently present on Nougat), so I'm going to have to wait a while before I can say conclusively that Oreo fixed it.

 

At least now I'm not conflating this issue and the "normal" Doze delays in my head.


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1927264 31-Dec-2017 10:25
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Got a new OTA on the Nokia 8 today. People are reporting faster fingerprint unlock and better camera. Will see.
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661 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1927267 31-Dec-2017 10:37
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It's now been a whole week since my first Nokia 6 got the 2017-12 patch, while the second one still won't find it.

 

Last time they showed up at the same time




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  Reply # 1935663 10-Jan-2018 15:22
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I've got a Nokia 5 and was also having the random turning off of Bluetooth.  I turned off Bluetooth Location Scanning 3 days ago, and Bluetooth has remained on since. 

 

For anyone else having bluetooth issues, go to Settings > Location > Scanning > 3 dots (top right), then turn off 'Bluetooth scanning'. I'm guess it would scan, then turn off bluetooth, even if it was previously on.

 

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1935681 10-Jan-2018 15:36
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al8565:

 

I've got a Nokia 5 and was also having the random turning off of Bluetooth.  I turned off Bluetooth Location Scanning 3 days ago, and Bluetooth has remained on since. 

 

For anyone else having bluetooth issues, go to Settings > Location > Scanning > 3 dots (top right), then turn off 'Bluetooth scanning'. I'm guess it would scan, then turn off bluetooth, even if it was previously on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can confirm that this worked for me too on the Nokia 6.




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  Reply # 1963783 25-Feb-2018 11:37
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Nokia 5 here just offered Android 8.0

 

1731.2 MB - so quite a large update :-)


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1963790 25-Feb-2018 11:57
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Apparently Nokia's update delivery infrastructure is gutless and that's why many users get ridiculously late updates (they have to dribble them out). Neither of my phones has received the Android 8 final, though it was released on he 31st of January. One of them is on the Oreo Beta (why the hell didn't they prioritize beta testers for the stable release?) with 5th December 2017 security patch and the other is on Nougat with the 1st January 2018 security patch. Another reason why I hate these phones.

 

If anyone wants to buy a barely used Nokia 6, let me know. I think it's time I got rid of at least one of these. Full disclosure: worst phone I've ever owned.




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  Reply # 1963816 25-Feb-2018 12:07
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I don't think it's the infrastructure - it's the models. The Nokia 8 I have here is running Android 8 since December and was offered Android 8.1 today. The download took only five minutes (gigabit fibre here) - for comparison wife's Huawei was offered Android 8.0 last night and the download is only at 65% after 12 hours.





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  Reply # 1963819 25-Feb-2018 12:19
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Oubadah:

 

If anyone wants to buy a barely used Nokia 6, let me know. I think it's time I got rid of at least one of these. Full disclosure: worst phone I've ever owned.

 

 

I've not heard anyone happy with the 6 - I'm happy with the 5 (Coming from a Windows Phone) - and chose the 5 over the 6 based upon a lot of the reviews.  The 8.0 update downloaded super quick (100mbit fibre) and installed in probably the same length of time.  (Although I really did just leave it to it whilst I was doing other things.


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