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  # 2244516 24-May-2019 12:02
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MikeB4:

This whole mess has wide implications for tech and world trade in general. It also has very ominous storm clouds over "global" stability. It is more than just one phone maker and I think we all need to be very concerned.


How much of all this chaos would be happening if it were May 2021 & Trump had just started his 2nd term?

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2244518 24-May-2019 12:11
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GV27:

 

tripper1000: Well, the USA authorities are doing something about it. 

 

And the dozens of patent infringement suits that fly back and forward between Apple and other companies? The willingness of the US intelligence agencies to plant/develop back doors in consumer products for their own benefit? By their own yard stick, the US should blacklist itself. 

 

I suspect you are look at this with bias and prejudice and without weighing up all the facts.

 

You make a good discussion point - why is the situation different with Apple and Samsung? Well that's simple to answer: Samsung hasn't been banned from trading in the USA because it respect the rule of law and shows up in court to duke it out it Apple etc whenever it is summons to do so. Conversely Apple hasn't been banned in Europe because it showed up in court there and paid the finds levied against it. Samsung and Apple cases require no Govt intervention because claims get taken care of in the courts i.e. they respect the local laws. Look at the trouble the yanks are having getting Hauwei to face up in court - Huawei gives them the middle finger and hides behind Mama-Communist-Parties skirts. The USA are having to extradite board members from Canada to get them to show up in court. The Chinese Govt protect Huawei and rewards unscrupulous behaviour in a way that the Korean Govt does not protect Samsung from the USA, nor nor the USA protects Apple from the EU.

 

If you disagree with the law somewhere, it's simple - don't go there and don't sell your products there. If you give a someone the middle finger, don't act surprised when they refuse to sell you their stuff. It ain't rocket science.

 

WRT the US intelligence, you are right about the USA, but why do you not apply the exact same yard stick to the Chinese? Ask yourself this: Why is it accepted that the the US intelligence would plant back doors but rejected that the Chinese Govt would do the same? Why do the Chinese need a law to obligate Huawei etc to help the Chinese intelligence services if they never intend to invoke it?  Given the Chinese communist parties disregard for human rights, foreign laws and propensity to spy on its own people etc it seems extremely plausible that the Chinese would behave at least as bad as the USA if not far worse.

 

The US Govt has a mandate to protect US business from theft. All countries (NZ, USA, China etc) have the right to protect themselves from spying/espionage/sabotage/theft and don't have to give anyone except their citizens any justification. 

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2244519 24-May-2019 12:18
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tripper1000:

 

The US Govt has a mandate to protect US business from theft. All countries (NZ, USA, China etc) have the right to protect themselves from spying/espionage/sabotage/theft and don't have to give anyone except their citizens any justification. 

 

 

It's incredibly ironic you've accused me of looking at this with bias and then insisted upon the right of the US not to be held to the same standard it wants to hold everyone else to.

 

tripper1000:

 

If you disagree with the law somewhere, it's simple - don't go there and don't sell your products there. If you give a someone the middle finger, don't act surprised when they refuse to sell you their stuff. It ain't rocket science.

 

 

You seem to be conflating the US Govt and the tech companies, who were quite happy to have formal agreements and arrangements with Huawei. Thanks to the US Govt, that is no longer possible and the tech companies can't do business with Huawei even if they want to. That this has caught up consumers in NZ - a country with FTAs and relatively positive relations with China - is an even bigger picture issue that we should all be concerned by.

 

Remember how the US wanted us to be wary about potential state interference in our networks? Well, here's a foreign government who is actively and openly interfering with our telecommunications industry.


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  # 2244534 24-May-2019 12:29
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tripper1000:

 

zyo: It's pretty sad such a great company is reduced to nothing more than a total copycat/IP thief in some people's (mostly Americans and/or muerican wannabes) eyes from the relentless smear campaign just because it's a Chinese company .

 

It isn't an opinion, it is pretty factual. Huawei has been busted twice in the last year alone illegally exporting samples from the USA in direct contravention to the contract with the developers/owners and USA law. Once was new CPU's which they are believed to have opened in an attempt to reverse engineer and once was a new kind of glass.

 

How would you feel if Huawei stole your new invention and attempted to copy to avoid paying you of the payment you deserve? You'd be pretty mad and would be expecting the authorities to do something about it. Well, the USA authorities are doing something about it.

 



Exactly. And its well known by peeps in China why they are doing it so its hardly CIA level forensic IP or computer science/

And Huawei are far from the first who have been held accountable Id say ZTE was the last major one, slightly different, but their name has been dragged through the mud in the US.

 

Who is going to buy an unknown brand Huawei even with its smoke and mirrors camera post processing and old school method of low light sensor management. Even if they comply within 90 days, this has virtually killed their USA mainstream market which they were seriously starting to crack.

If they dont comply then a $1500 phone is near worthless to the majority.

 

However, is it possible to put lineage 15.1 on the latest Huawei phones? I guess the issue would be there would be no way to manage the RYYB to RGGB sensor process?

 

GV27:

 

Thanks to the US Govt, that is no longer possible and the tech companies can't do business with Huawei even if they want to. That this has caught up consumers in NZ - a country with FTAs and relatively positive relations with China - is an even bigger picture issue that we should all be concerned by.

 

Remember how the US wanted us to be wary about potential state interference in our networks? Well, here's a foreign government who is actively and openly interfering with our telecommunications industry.

 

 

 

 

Well said, yes of course NZ should be concerned. Arent our Vodafone Fibre modems made by Huawei? I have a secondary one.

As for phones the obvious issue is they become near worthless to a lot of people. Of course the people who bought a p30 pro will still use the phone stuck on its current OS and have no security patches for what is possible a sniffer in your hand lol. Ive seen used prices drop already.

 

Im not too concerned, Xiaomi continue to push the price point, which Huawei decided to join, so if they go from number 2 goliath to number 20 and only sold in china it wont upset me. Their skin sucks anyway, along with a price point similar to Galaxy s10, its not worth worrying about for those that dont own one. We need chinese phones sold below $1k at the quality of the p30 pro with no non compliant security issues. Then and only then will prices be impacted/ I mean seriously Apple, $2k for as phone?


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  # 2244584 24-May-2019 13:53
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I do feel sorry for the users who paid for their products though, I think if they decide not to comply there should be a demand for refund. They cant use another OS, nobody will trust another Play Store with seperate apps. nobody will trust that.

IMO Huawei given how well they are doing, they will comply. As for their other devices Im not across the issue, is it just IP based security concerns?


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  # 2244597 24-May-2019 14:09
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TeaLeaf:

 

IMO Huawei given how well they are doing, they will comply. As for their other devices Im not across the issue, is it just IP based security concerns?

 

 

Trump has given an interview where he implies it's a security issue, but that it can be resolved as part of trade negotiations.

 

Well, which is it? It can't be both at the same time. It's starting to smell like what it is - an American attempt to assert control over global supply chains and companies/consumers in other jurisdictions. 


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  # 2244602 24-May-2019 14:14
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GV27:

 

TeaLeaf:

 

IMO Huawei given how well they are doing, they will comply. As for their other devices Im not across the issue, is it just IP based security concerns?

 

 

Trump has given an interview where he implies it's a security issue, but that it can be resolved as part of trade negotiations.

 

Well, which is it? It can't be both at the same time. It's starting to smell like what it is - an American attempt to assert control over global supply chains and companies/consumers in other jurisdictions. 

 

 

That is exactly how US trade sanctions work and why they are mega effective.






 
 
 
 


zyo

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2244622 24-May-2019 14:46
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tripper1000:

zyo: It's pretty sad such a great company is reduced to nothing more than a total copycat/IP thief in some people's (mostly Americans and/or muerican wannabes) eyes from the relentless smear campaign just because it's a Chinese company .


It isn't an opinion, it is pretty factual. Huawei has been busted twice in the last year alone illegally exporting samples from the USA in direct contravention to the contract with the developers/owners and USA law. Once was new CPU's which they are believed to have opened in an attempt to reverse engineer and once was a new kind of glass.


How would you feel if Huawei stole your new invention and attempted to copy to avoid paying you of the payment you deserve? You'd be pretty mad and would be expecting the authorities to do something about it. Well, the USA authorities are doing something about it.



Apple, Samsung have all been prosecuted and fined with IP infringements before. How's that any different? Should they be banned around the world too?

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  # 2244624 24-May-2019 14:48
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Zeon:

 

That is exactly how US trade sanctions work and why they are mega effective.

 

 

I suspect it's a lot more effective when you have a President who can stay on message. 


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2244625 24-May-2019 14:48
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Don't be too quick to judge and jump to conspiracy conclusions.

 

Vietnam and other poor Asian countries have been benefiting from the "trade war" as investors (including Chinese investors) set up manufacturing in non-Chinese countries to avoid the tariffs.  So the "trade war" could be seen as a Foreign Aid package to deserving but poor countries. 

 

Also China has become the single source of supply for a lot of stuff, which leaves the USA (and the rest of the world) vulnerable to being cut off or to price hikes and extortion etc. By encouraging diversification in manufacturing it reduces this risk, and it increase competition (which is a play right out of the capitalists book).

 

Edit: This would nicely explain why Trump is "Very Happy" with how the trade war is going when all the journalists think he should be worried about it.


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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2244629 24-May-2019 14:53
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zyo: Apple, Samsung have all been prosecuted and fined with IP infringements before. How's that any different? Should they be banned around the world too?

 

That is exactly the difference. Samsung and Apple have been prosecuted and sorted out by the courts. Huawei ignores the local laws and refuses to front up in court. So a resolution in this case can not be found in a court room the problem escalates from the Justice system to the government who pull out a bigger, much worse hammer to squash the problem with.


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  # 2244631 24-May-2019 14:56
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amiga500:
MikeB4:

 

This whole mess has wide implications for tech and world trade in general. It also has very ominous storm clouds over "global" stability. It is more than just one phone maker and I think we all need to be very concerned.

 


How much of all this chaos would be happening if it were May 2021 & Trump had just started his 2nd term?

 

More chaos, coz he's just going to go all out knowing he'll never get another chance. (unless his children gets elected, then he might, though he'd be too old to do anything)





Swype on iOS is detrimental to accurate typing. Apologies in advance.


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  # 2244635 24-May-2019 15:02
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surfisup1000: And Isis needed to be defeated.


That would be the same Isis that only came into existence because of the power vacuum created Iraq after the US invaded on false pretences?

zyo

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 2244636 24-May-2019 15:03
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tripper1000:

zyo: Apple, Samsung have all been prosecuted and fined with IP infringements before. How's that any different? Should they be banned around the world too?


That is exactly the difference. Samsung and Apple have been prosecuted and sorted out by the courts. Huawei ignores the local laws and refuses to front up in court. So a resolution in this case can not be found in a court room the problem escalates from the Justice system to the government who pull out a bigger, much worse hammer to squash the problem with.



Source?
As far as I know Huawei has been fined in the US before. Also They don't really gain from not showing up in the court room that's not how the legal system works.

Additionally the entity list Huawei was put on was created by Trump citing national security due to fear of spying. it has nothing to do with IP infringement

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Ultimate Geek
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