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BDFL - Memuneh
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  Reply # 353396 19-Jul-2010 13:56
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wendonside:
freitasm:

Unless you have the latest and greatest OS don't do it then. Either get a Windows Mobile or iPhone.




So, just to clarify, when you say "latest and greatest OS" do you mean Windows, Android or Exchange Server? Or something else entirely?


Android on your handset.





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  Reply # 353518 19-Jul-2010 17:35
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freitasm:
wendonside:
freitasm:

Unless you have the latest and greatest OS don't do it then. Either get a Windows Mobile or iPhone.




So, just to clarify, when you say "latest and greatest OS" do you mean Windows, Android or Exchange Server? Or something else entirely?


Android on your handset.




 

To enjoy or have fun with Android, you should get the 'top' range phone ie. HTC desire, samsung galaxy etc (these phones will cost you >$900). Samsung galaxy definitely has support for exchange activesync. These phones have superior hardware and they should be able to update to the latest and greatest android OS when it is available.

Unfortunately, the cheaper android-based-phones, will usually lag behind. For example, my HTC magic still stuck in Android 1.6 land. So far, no announcement from vodafone to push 2.x update to this phone. Using android 1.6 is like still using OSX 10.4 on PowerPC in 2010. It is usable, good enough with tons of features but not the latest and greatest. On top of that the support is 'diminishing'. Also dont expect many App that will support this older OS. For me, I am still holding onto my HTC magic because it works flawlessly in downloading my emails heading (POP3) every hour even while I am on GPRS vodafone network. On the day 2degrees open up the 3G network, I will be ordering my Samsung Galaxy Wink





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  Reply # 353522 19-Jul-2010 17:38
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You can't say the Android experience is only great on the top range devices. Anyone who gets an introduction with a crappy handset gets the idea Android is, well, crappy.

There's something wrong here. And what's wrong is the multitude of devices that are worthless. The Android Alliance should set a minimum standard - like Microsoft is at last doing with Windows Phone 7. Rumours are that Google wants this to be the case in the Android ecosystem as well...




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  Reply # 353556 19-Jul-2010 19:15
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freitasm: The Android Alliance should set a minimum standard - like Microsoft is at last doing with Windows Phone 7. Rumours are that Google wants this to be the case in the Android ecosystem as well...

 Even if this were possible with an open source operating system, it doesn't seem necessary. Let the market sort it out.

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  Reply # 353563 19-Jul-2010 19:22
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freitasm: Reading the topic subject "Android phone flaws" and the OP asks about HTC and Samsung...

My point is that I don't want to have to go through different Android handset models to find the ones that work, and the ones that don't.

That's the User Experience (UX) part that is lacking in the platform. At least Windows Mobile works consistently, and the same with the iPhone. I really don't want to get an iPhone, and Windows Mobile works well with Exchange - shame I don't trust Windows Phone 7 will be a great thing (might be wrong, but time will tell).

And I am really trying to like Android. Tried a few handsets but as I said it's not viable for a normal user to go around testing every single device to find one that "woks".

The way I see it, the smartphone segment is really lacking at the moment.

Interesting comment as, like the OP, I'm looking to jump into the smartphone arena.  However, I'm really hesitant as there's no way for me to know if any one phone is going to meet my particular needs and there isn't anywhere that allows you to test them out.

It's a lot of dosh to shell out for a decent smartphone,  and if it isn't exactly what I want it's going to be a lot of unhappiness...

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  Reply # 353566 19-Jul-2010 19:32
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Saying that every android handset has to deliver the same experience is like trying to say that every Nokia handset should deliver the same user experience. My wife has an S60 Nokia 6220 and I (did have) an E71. Although they were running the same OS they had different user experiences. S40 is a subset of S60 etc....

The core OS doesn't have to deliver the same experience for everyone. Windows 7 is a good example... Starter, Professional, Ultimate.... Maurico, perhaps the potshots should be aimed at the cellphone vendors who are (or are not in some cases) supplying the support for these devices.

Like any device I would recommend doing the research on individual devices and vendors, not just the core OS.

I am loving my Samsung Spica and the refreshing user experience it brings after the Nokia. The google integration is great. My issue is that some apps seem to be hit and miss and this is probably due to the wide variety of hardware on the market.

Cheers, Matt.




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  Reply # 353570 19-Jul-2010 19:47
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The "experience" doesn't have to be the same. But things have to "just work" and sometimes they don't.

Yes, it's not hte OS fault, but the whole ecosystem. OEM are the worse ones by not supporting their devices - unbelievable a device that's less than an year old and there's no update for it.







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  Reply # 353575 19-Jul-2010 19:57
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hairy1: The core OS doesn't have to deliver the same experience for everyone. Windows 7 is a good example...


I understand about different levels of user experience. But that is not what really concerns me. What I want is functionality that actually works e.g. my view is reliable syncing with Exchange is mandatory for any phone posing as a business phone and selling at or close to $1,000. Similarly with the lag issue, which may or may not be fixed by a firmware or OS upgrade, and similarly with the reception issue on the iPhone 4. I just don't have the time or the inclination to spend hours experimenting with a whole lot of different configuration settings that may or may not fix a problem that shouldn't be occurring in the first place.

Sorry Matt - I'm not having a go at you - I'm just expressing a bit of frustration that what should be a great package perhaps actually isn't. And I'm glad the Spica is working out for you ...


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  Reply # 353586 19-Jul-2010 20:07
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freitasm: Yes, it's not hte OS fault, but the whole ecosystem. OEM are the worse ones by not supporting their devices - unbelievable a device that's less than an year old and there's no update for it.


 How many of the 54 recent Windows Mobile 6.x smartphones still on sale will get an upgrade to Windows Mobile 7? Is the answer "zero"? How many even got an upgrade from 6.1 to 6.5? I think the answer is "five".

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  Reply # 353590 19-Jul-2010 20:18
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No probs! I agree that $1000 should get you something that "works!"

It is an interesting conundrum and comes back to the age old debate about open sourcing....

I still think the blame lies with the plethora of vendors not supporting their products which is perhaps "tainting" the underlying OS.

Cheers.




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  Reply # 353593 19-Jul-2010 20:26
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hairy1: No probs! I agree that $1000 should get you something that "works!"

It is an interesting conundrum and comes back to the age old debate about open sourcing....

I still think the blame lies with the plethora of vendors not supporting their products which is perhaps "tainting" the underlying OS.

Cheers.


Been in somewhat of the same boat, been looking at Android phones - but want the "just works" experience.

What worries is, phones sold with 1.5/1.6 versions of android.  Vendors not keeping up with current release of android (is google releasing too quickly?) - no minimum hardware specs, allowing for laggy experience (that's said Apple have just done that with the 3g running IOS4).  Having to "hack" to get things to work (rooting for upgrading android versions for example), hit and miss exchange support (relying on freitasm's accounts here).  Frankly it all scares me a bit - especially at the thought of shelling out $1k.

I'm tempted to go iPhone for slightly more and just deal with it, as most of the features I want (working apps, exchange etc) are all well embedded and just work....  But I've love to go android if nothing else but to save money.




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  Reply # 353637 19-Jul-2010 21:44
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wendonside:
freitasm: Reading the topic subject "Android phone flaws" and the OP asks about HTC and Samsung...

My point is that I don't want to have to go through different Android handset models to find the ones that work, and the ones that don't.

That's the User Experience (UX) part that is lacking in the platform. At least Windows Mobile works consistently, and the same with the iPhone. I really don't want to get an iPhone, and Windows Mobile works well with Exchange - shame I don't trust Windows Phone 7 will be a great thing (might be wrong, but time will tell).

And I am really trying to like Android. Tried a few handsets but as I said it's not viable for a normal user to go around testing every single device to find one that "woks".

The way I see it, the smartphone segment is really lacking at the moment.



I am now reaching the same conclusion. Which is unfortunate as I am also really trying to like Android. Back to the drawing board ...

Thanks for all the comments, though. Very helpful.


This doesn't really make sense to me. 

If I want to buy a car, I do have to work out which one meets my needs, including function and quality. 
If I want to buy a house, I do have to work out which one meets my needs, including function and quality. 
If I want to buy a computer, I do have to work out which one meets my needs, including function and quality. Even today, in a mature computing industry, there is still a huge range of choice or hardware and capability and price from a large number of vendors. 

We would be frustrated and annoyed if there were not. 

So.......If I want to buy a phone, I do have to work out which one meets my needs, including function and quality: Android, Maemo, Symbian, WinMo, iOS...and whatever else. 

The "fragmentation" meme assumes choice is bad and we do not want it.  

This is the reality distortion zone again.....where diverse choice and functionalilty is presented as bad...and ONE PHONE from the Politburo is - implicitly - therefore a virtue?  

Hopefully no one bought an LG GW620f without being WELL aware it had an old version of Android on it....when there were other phones available that not only had more current versions of the OS, but which were also certain to be upgraded very soon. 

If I were on Telecom I would have bought a Google Nexus One of the AT&T flavour (UMTS 850/2100) if maximum app compatibility and an early move to Android v2.2 was an important consideration to me. OK, Telecom NZ don't sell such a phone. Do i wait for them to get around to it on the basis I get.....what? Better service? Better choices? Better....what?

Better nothing that I can see. Now or in the future. So I bought the phone I thought was best direct from the vendor. Telcos in NZ clearly aren't up to the job and I won't sit around pretending they are.   

That makes no sense to me.... 





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  Reply # 353641 19-Jul-2010 21:48
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numfarr:
freitasm: Yes, it's not hte OS fault, but the whole ecosystem. OEM are the worse ones by not supporting their devices - unbelievable a device that's less than an year old and there's no update for it.


 How many of the 54 recent Windows Mobile 6.x smartphones still on sale will get an upgrade to Windows Mobile 7? Is the answer "zero"? How many even got an upgrade from 6.1 to 6.5? I think the answer is "five".


Being a Microsoft MVP Windows Phone I am well aware of that. The problem is that what's happening with Android now is exactly what happened to Windows Mobile - five years ago.

History repeats itself. I am pointing out the problems on Android because I'd like to see it succeeding where Windows Mobile failed.

Windows Phone 7 is a completely different story. The hardware requirements are different, hence no upgrade path.

FYI, "OTA Update" existed on Windows Mobile since Windows Mobile 5 (codenamed "Magneto"). I know,  was part of that beta six years ago. You know why OTA Updates didn't come to Windows Mobile after all? Ask the lovely mobile operators.

Apple changed the game. Unfortunately Google didn't use that to their advantage when shipping Android out of the door.





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  Reply # 353646 19-Jul-2010 21:52
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Linuxluver: If I want to buy a car, I do have to work out which one meets my needs, including function and quality. 



Handsets, unlike cars, are a black box when it comes to purchase experiences. You can't walk into a store and have a test drive.

Linuxluver: The "fragmentation" meme assumes choice is bad and we do not want it.  


There's no meme. It's real and happening. Choice is very good. The problem is that there isn't a baseline on these choices. Make it a minimum standard and then all should work. That's what Microsoft is doing with Windows Phone 7 and "chassis" if you haven't read about it yet.

Linuxluver: This is the reality distortion zone again.....where diverse choice and functionalilty is presented as bad...and ONE PHONE from the Politburo is - implicitly - therefore a virtue?  


Reality Distortion Field is painting everything with rosy colours. This is reality.

Linuxluver: Hopefully no one bought an LG GW620f without being WELL aware it had an old version of Android on it....when there were other phones available that not only had more current versions of the OS, but which were also certain to be upgraded very soon. 


I don't even know why crossed Telecom's collective mind that would be a good idea to release a phone like that.

Linuxluver: You can't buy a Volkswagen Beetle and complain it isn't a Passat....and cry 'fragmentation" because it isn't. 


The difference is that both the Beetle and the Passat will take you from Wellington to Napier. The Android 1.6 won't run the latest released apps and will take you nowhere.





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  Reply # 353663 19-Jul-2010 22:20
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freitasm: 

Being a Microsoft MVP Windows Phone I am well aware of that. The problem is that what's happening with Android now is exactly what happened to Windows Mobile - five years ago.

....



It helps to keep some perspective here.

Android v1.6 has been out for 10 months.
Android v2.1 has been out for 7 months.
Android v2.2 has been out for 3 weeks.

Android had a lot of ground to make up to get close to the front of the pack.  

That time appears to be right about now. Almost every (major) new phone being announced today is at least on Android v2.1.

Yes, Android empowers any vendor to innovate and some look at that and see only chaos.....except it isn't working out that way.

It isn't working out that way because innovation isn't occurring in just one direction (the usual closed-source model).

Android isn't closed-source software. Instead, it's the centre or an ecology that sees the good new stuff from any source (corporation or garage programmer) cycled back into the core to become part of the next core release....focused through the lens of the Open Handset Alliance development effort. There is now even code in "official" Android that has come from independent developers like Cyanogen. This is what makes Android so very different to traditional offerings...and why it may have bits hanging off the side at times as various vendors try out their innovations, but the core remains coherent - stuck together by the "app glue" customers impose. This is why Android v1.5 is dying every day....and will be all but gone in 12 months.  

Absolutely there will be leaders and laggards....but the CORE is clear enough - Android v2.x - and people who want great phones will move with the core. 

A simpler way of putting it may be that people who don't care about the broader picture will buy a phone that suits them....and which runs almost every Android app.....and be happy with it. 

I see the choice all this affords as a good thing. Hundreds of phones to choose from. Dozens of tablets. Netbooks not far away...and they all run the same apps.

I see convergence from phone to desktop.....perhaps via diverse paths, but all heading in the same direction.




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