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24 posts

Geek


  # 465277 4-May-2011 13:23
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Someones got one up on Trademe already. 3-4 days from their warehouse apparently so not actually in their hands. Wonder if it'll have Exynos and Super Amoled+?

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Ultimate Geek

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  # 465280 4-May-2011 13:32
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Paulsy: Someones got one up on Trademe already. 3-4 days from their warehouse apparently so not actually in their hands. Wonder if it'll have Exynos and Super Amoled+?


whats the point of buying it, if you just going to do that....




Social Bitcoin meetup every 2 weeks in Hamilton PM me for details 


 
 
 
 


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Ultimate Geek


  # 465318 4-May-2011 14:55
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ArtooDetoo: So, with respect, you're not really correct in your "it'll take a long time for market forces to bring the price down naturally in our market" comment unless you think a long time is around three months. I think that's not long at all.

It depends on whether you're talking about the locally-sourced market or the parallel-imported market.

There doesn't appear to be too many places that are selling locally-sourced phones. Aside from the cellular networks' own retail stores and their official resellers, there aren't many places that sell locally-sourced product. Some resellers like DSE occasionally offer special deals, but these are only temporary and don't relate to the normal everyday price of the phone.

For example, the only real drop in price of the SGS on Vodafone was from the original launch price (about $1200) to the current price (about $1000). Yes, there was the standard "bleeding-edge tax" applied for a couple of months. But following the removal of this "tax" there's been no movement in the standard price of this phone. The free market is not bringing the price down as you'd expect it should, most likely because there isn't a lot of competition.

The parallel import market is another matter altogether. There are a fairly large number of sellers, who are able to source product from a number of different wholesalers. These sellers have to find a way to compete, otherwise consumers will just go elsewhere. This competition is helping to push phone prices down.

Why am I making a distinction? Because there is some difference in what you get. The locally-sourced phones have a manufacturer's warranty, and because the sellers are NZ companies you can use the Consumer Guarantees Act to help if things go wrong. All of the various accessories are local, so you don't have to use power socket adapters or third-party products. These things matter to some people, and so you have to treat the products a little differently.

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  # 465333 4-May-2011 15:48
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I'm interested. Do the first batch available through Expansys, Mobicity have the NFC chip? Bragging rights accepted if you have your S2 already

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Ultimate Geek

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  # 465345 4-May-2011 16:05
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Is there a comparison somewhere of the different s2 variants?
I read somwhere about there being differences in the processors, screens and all sorts..

Is this all true?
I haven't really kept up on this phone but am considering getting it.  A shame android phones lose value so much and so fast, im sure ill lose lots of $$ on my second hand sgs.  iphones seem to keep pretty high value in the second hand market.

oh and is the exynos considered better than nvidias tegra? which i read will be on some variants...

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Ultimate Geek


  # 465349 4-May-2011 16:41
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Bteam: I'm interested. Do the first batch available through Expansys, Mobicity have the NFC chip?


I've been following the phone's release both here and on XDA-Developers. It would appear that none of the current batch of phones are shipping with a NFC chip in them. From what anyone so far has been able to gather, only certain countries will get the NFC chip with the phone, and the UK doesn't look to be one of these countries.

The only country known at the moment to be getting NFC is South Korea. However, they're running different hardware altogether as their phones are required to have a T-DMB receiver.

Kilack: Is there a comparison somewhere of the different s2 variants?
I read somwhere about there being differences in the processors, screens and all sorts..

Is this all true?
I haven't really kept up on this phone but am considering getting it.  A shame android phones lose value so much and so fast, im sure ill lose lots of $$ on my second hand sgs.  iphones seem to keep pretty high value in the second hand market.

oh and is the exynos considered better than nvidias tegra? which i read will be on some variants...


There was talk about Samsung using the Tegra 2 CPU on some models, or using S-LCD instead of SAMOLED+, because of supply shortages of the Exynos CPU or the SAMOLED+ screens. To date, however, nobody has seen any confirmation that any of these alternative parts are to be used. All of the countries that have had confirmed specifications are getting Exynos and SAMOLED+. The only big question at the moment is around the presence of NFC chips (see above).

In terms of which SoC is better (Exynos or Tegra 2), it appears that Exynos has the upper hand. On the CPU side they appear to be fairy equal, but the Exynos' GPU is meant to be much better. The Tegra 2 benchmarks better, but that's only because the maximum frame rate is not bound to the refresh rate of the screen. If you push the graphics capabilities of both chips to the point where they're getting < 60fps, the Exynos comes out slightly ahead.

And I wouldn't worry too much about the resale value of the phone. Apple products always seem to get above-average resale prices, and that's all because of a disparity in marketing. Apple market their products extensively and effectively. Other brands don't. Therefore, when someone thinks of any generic smartphone task, the first name that comes to mind is "iPhone". The same thing has happened in the portable music player market with the iPod. It doesn't matter how good the competition might be if there's only one name that people know about.

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Uber Geek

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  # 465362 4-May-2011 18:10
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nzgeek:
It depends on whether you're talking about the locally-sourced market or the parallel-imported market.


If the phones are bought from the parallel importers, then they are still local purchases. If you mean personal imports, that's not parallel imported. Parallel imported means sold by retailers or distributors in this country who are not manufacturer-authorised retailers or distributors. There is plenty of evidence that the local parallel importers lower their prices permanently when there's competition from the likes of Noel Leeming, Bond & Bond etc.

There doesn't appear to be too many places that are selling locally-sourced phones. Aside from the cellular networks' own retail stores and their official resellers, there aren't many places that sell locally-sourced product. Some resellers like DSE occasionally offer special deals, but these are only temporary and don't relate to the normal everyday price of the phone.


Just like your local supermarket? The phrase "normal everyday price" applies to the price the retailer decides they can stick to for a period, 90 days or more I believe, that then entitles them to claim that a reduction is a 'sale' price, thereby heading off legal action from the Commerce Commision. The price we pay is what the market will stand, and if we make a purchase from any retailer without bargaining, then it's not the retailer's fault that we pay what we pay.

As to 'locally-sourced', in my previous post, I mentioned three retailers but there are more including the ubiquitous Harvey Norman, JB HiFi and so on who sell phones with official warranties, market-specific specs and accessories. These people deal all the time.

But following the removal of this "tax" there's been no movement in the standard price of this phone. The free market is not bringing the price down as you'd expect it should, most likely because there isn't a lot of competition.


Tell that to the significant number of SGS1 owners here who got their phones from NL (IIRC) for ~$700. That's competition in action. And I repeat, there is no "standard price". I'm certain it's illegal in NZ.

Why am I making a distinction? Because there is some difference in what you get. The locally-sourced phones have a manufacturer's warranty, and because the sellers are NZ companies you can use the Consumer Guarantees Act to help if things go wrong. All of the various accessories are local, so you don't have to use power socket adapters or third-party products. These things matter to some people, and so you have to treat the products a little differently.


Your point above seems well-reasoned to me as to why personal imports are not for everyone. Your comment as to the CGA though, applies to the parallel import retailers as much as to the authorised retailers, so there's little risk in purchasing from them other than that which would apply to any local business, bricks and mortar or online.

But I've said my piece now and don't intend to flog this deceased equine further. I leave it to you to have the final word.

Cheers,
R2D2






Galaxy S has gone to its new owner. HTC Sensation has gone to its new
owner. Galaxy S3 has gone to its new owner. Now using Galaxy Note 3. Skipping Note 4 I think...

 
 
 
 


485 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  # 465392 4-May-2011 19:10
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Planning to get it from trade me... Good idea?

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Uber Geek
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  # 465399 4-May-2011 19:18
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ushare: Planning to get it from trade me... Good idea?


No consumer guarantee from Trade Me,

598 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 465422 4-May-2011 20:14
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R2D2, I agree with the majority of what you've said, but not all of it. I've put my thoughts below, and I'd be happy if you decide to respond to them. If you don't, I'll just assume that we're agreeing to disagree, and leave it at that.

ArtooDetoo: If the phones are bought from the parallel importers, then they are still local purchases. If you mean personal imports, that's not parallel imported. Parallel imported means sold by retailers or distributors in this country who are not manufacturer-authorised retailers or distributors. There is plenty of evidence that the local parallel importers lower their prices permanently when there's competition from the likes of Noel Leeming, Bond & Bond etc.


It's not so much the country of purchase that affects the market price, but the country of origin.

Authorised resellers are bound by contract to source their product from an official distributor in their own market. There may be multiple distributors in large countries, but here there's generally only one. That pretty much means that any authorised retailer will be paying roughly the same wholesale price for the product. Any difference in price is due to changes in the retailers' margins.

Parallel importers are not bound to source their product from any particular distributor. They can shop around until they find the one that gives them the best deal. This means that they could end up selling a product at a lower price than an authorised reseller, but still make the same amount of raw margin.

If an authorised reseller drops their price below that of a parallel-imported product, the importers are pretty much forced to lower their prices too. Their product is technically "lesser" than the authorised product, and the only way to compete is on price. However, unless the retailer is selling at a loss, the importer can generally keep the price lower.

But how often does it work the other way around? Not often, if ever. Retailers generally keep the same price, even if the wholesale cost drops, because they don't have any real incentive to drop it. If they drop price, other retailers will too, and everyone loses out. It's easier for them all if nobody moves on price.

Just like your local supermarket? The phrase "normal everyday price" applies to the price the retailer decides they can stick to for a period, 90 days or more I believe, that then entitles them to claim that a reduction is a 'sale' price, thereby heading off legal action from the Commerce Commision. The price we pay is what the market will stand, and if we make a purchase from any retailer without bargaining, then it's not the retailer's fault that we pay what we pay.

As to 'locally-sourced', in my previous post, I mentioned three retailers but there are more including the ubiquitous Harvey Norman, JB HiFi and so on who sell phones with official warranties, market-specific specs and accessories. These people deal all the time.


Supermarket pricing is possibly a bad analogy. It's probably better to look at the market for other electronic good, such as TVs.

Manufacturers and/or distributors generally set an RRP for their market. It's possible to deviate from this price, but most retailers don't. As I mentioned above, it's a game of minimizing loss. If one retailer cuts price, others have to follow suit in order to compete. All of them end up losing out. There are not a lot of retailers in NZ that deviate from RRP. If they do, it's generally because they run a lower-cost operation (e.g. JB HiFi's "no frills" stores) and can absorb a reduction in margin more easily.

It may be possible to get a retailer to do a special deal with you. However, many won't unless they think they're going to lose a sale because of it. You certainly won't get deals all the time, and definitely not if you're ordering online. The net effect is that the average market price is unchanged.

Tell that to the significant number of SGS1 owners here who got their phones from NL (IIRC) for ~$700. That's competition in action. And I repeat, there is no "standard price". I'm certain it's illegal in NZ.


Direct importing =/= competition. When you direct import, you are not participating in the local market. Therefore, any actions you take have no effect locally, and will do nothing to change the local market price.

Your point above seems well-reasoned to me as to why personal imports are not for everyone. Your comment as to the CGA though, applies to the parallel import retailers as much as to the authorised retailers, so there's little risk in purchasing from them other than that which would apply to any local business, bricks and mortar or online.


There seems to be some grey area regarding online stores and the CGA. A number of them are run by overseas companies that have a .nz domain name and a local bank account to make funds transfer easier, but don't have local staff and are not registered companies in NZ. As such, it's hard to say if they're covered by the CGA or not. I'd like to hear the thoughts of someone who's qualified to speak on this matter.

598 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 465423 4-May-2011 20:17
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kiwitrc:
ushare: Planning to get it from trade me... Good idea?


No consumer guarantee from Trade Me,

TradeMe = no guarantees at all. you may get what you paid for, you may not. If it's not, there's often not much you can do except give the seller bad feedback.

The only time I'd consider it is if the seller also had a business that sold the phones, and you could get a bit of a discount if you ordered off TradeMe rather than the usual route.

569 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 465437 4-May-2011 20:51
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nzgeek: Please be the 5th! Please be the 5th! I want to have a toy to play with on the weekend! Yell


Hmm. I've got some bad news for you then. Their SGSII page now states: Shipping expected to begin from the MobiCity warehouse on the 6/7th of May. Add shipping and you'll be well into next week (usually 1-3 days to Metro destinations and 5 days to Regional destinations). 

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Uber Geek

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  # 465463 4-May-2011 21:22
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My ones on it's way :) however I doubt it'll make it here before the weekend :( one can only hope!!!




I have moved across the ditch.  Now residing in Melbourne as a VOIP/Video Technical Trainer/Engineer. 

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Ultimate Geek

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  # 465464 4-May-2011 21:23
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Just received the following email from Clove for my SGSII ordered on 17/4/11.


We are pleased to inform you that your order (Ref: XXXXXXXX) has been dispatched.

Your order was dispatched by Airsure Tracked Mail (3-7 Days).

If you want to track your order then please visit the following web site using the tracking ID XXXXXXXXXXX
http://postcode.royalmail.com/portal/rm/track?catId=XXXXXXXX

Thank you. We look forward to doing business with you again.




Tivo upgrades to operate with the new OzTivo EPG, support and service. Over 300 performed here so far. See: www.hillcrest.net.nz


2113 posts

Uber Geek


  # 465472 4-May-2011 21:47
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anyone here get the one on trademe?




- Telstra HTC Touch Pro2 - Energy ROM WM6.5.5 20 Oct/Cyanogen Mod Froyo 2.2 - R.I.P
- AT&T Galaxy S Captivate 16GB on XT (now with brother)
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- Business Hours - Work In The Electricity Industry, After Hours - DJ/Turntablist - Will Scratch Vinyl For Free'
- What's next??? S3?

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