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  Reply # 478569 7-Jun-2011 15:21
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dickytim:
bazzer:
Kiwi1971:
bazzer:
Dratsab: The theft was complete as soon as she picked the phone up.

Huh?

I'd say as soon as she left the shop as she would have a "reasonable" period in which to hand it in.

Same.  Still, even then there's a grey area, if her intention is to return it and she thought it would be better/easier to do it herself than hand it to the shop person to throw in a lost and found cupboard in the lunchroom, for example.


The grey area turned black and white when she demanded a higher reward than offered. 

 
For those a little confused, here's Section 219 of the Crimes Act 1961 (emphasis added):

219 Theft or stealing
(1) Theft or stealing is the act of,—

(a) dishonestly and without claim of right, taking any property with intent to deprive any owner permanently of that property or of any interest in that property; or

(b) dishonestly and without claim of right, using or dealing with any property with intent to deprive any owner permanently of that property or of any interest in that property after obtaining possession of, or control over, the property in whatever manner.

(2) An intent to deprive any owner permanently of property includes an intent to deal with property in such a manner that—

(a) the property cannot be returned to any owner in the same condition; or

(b) any owner is likely to be permanently deprived of the property or of any interest in the property.

(3) In this section, taking does not include obtaining ownership or possession of, or control over, any property with the consent of the person from whom it is obtained, whether or not consent is obtained by deception.

(4) For tangible property, theft is committed by a taking when the offender moves the property or causes it to be moved.

Pretty simple really...  

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  Reply # 478574 7-Jun-2011 15:29
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Dratsab:(4) For tangible property, theft is committed by a taking when the offender moves the property or causes it to be moved.

Pretty simple really...  


They don't say how far. If it's on a chair and I move the chair to the other side of the room, is that theft?
/pedant






 
 
 
 


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Reply # 478581 7-Jun-2011 15:47
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stevenz:
Dratsab:(4) For tangible property, theft is committed by a taking when the offender moves the property or causes it to be moved.

Pretty simple really...  


They don't say how far. If it's on a chair and I move the chair to the other side of the room, is that theft?
/pedant


/tard

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  Reply # 478584 7-Jun-2011 15:51
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dickytim:
bazzer:
Kiwi1971:
bazzer:
Dratsab: The theft was complete as soon as she picked the phone up.

Huh?

I'd say as soon as she left the shop as she would have a "reasonable" period in which to hand it in.

Same.  Still, even then there's a grey area, if her intention is to return it and she thought it would be better/easier to do it herself than hand it to the shop person to throw in a lost and found cupboard in the lunchroom, for example.


The grey area turned black and white when she demanded a higher reward than offered.

TBH if you gave the police all the info you have, obviously you have the address so all the investigation work is done then they would follow up on it.

I  agree with earlier sentiments, WTF is the world coming to that returning someone's possessions is not reward enough. 

Makes me sick really.

And for the record, I would probably have had a play with it to try and find a contact number and maybe been a little nosey at the same time but when the number came up as someone trying to contact the phone I would have answered it or called back. 

Granted, I was talking hypothetically.  I suppose the other opinions may have been directed at this exact scenario.  So, since her intention was probably to keep the phone if she could, then I guess the theft was complete as soon as she picked the phone up.

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  Reply # 478586 7-Jun-2011 15:55
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Dratsab:
dickytim:
bazzer:
Kiwi1971:
bazzer:
Dratsab: The theft was complete as soon as she picked the phone up.

Huh?

I'd say as soon as she left the shop as she would have a "reasonable" period in which to hand it in.

Same.  Still, even then there's a grey area, if her intention is to return it and she thought it would be better/easier to do it herself than hand it to the shop person to throw in a lost and found cupboard in the lunchroom, for example.


The grey area turned black and white when she demanded a higher reward than offered. 

 
For those a little confused, here's Section 219 of the Crimes Act 1961 (emphasis added):

219 Theft or stealing
(1) Theft or stealing is the act of,—

(a) dishonestly and without claim of right, taking any property with intent to deprive any owner permanently of that property or of any interest in that property; or

(b) dishonestly and without claim of right, using or dealing with any property with intent to deprive any owner permanently of that property or of any interest in that property after obtaining possession of, or control over, the property in whatever manner.

(2) An intent to deprive any owner permanently of property includes an intent to deal with property in such a manner that—

(a) the property cannot be returned to any owner in the same condition; or

(b) any owner is likely to be permanently deprived of the property or of any interest in the property.

(3) In this section, taking does not include obtaining ownership or possession of, or control over, any property with the consent of the person from whom it is obtained, whether or not consent is obtained by deception.

(4) For tangible property, theft is committed by a taking when the offender moves the property or causes it to be moved.

Pretty simple really...  

I'm just saying that now you're a mind reader, that somehow knows the intent of a person you don't even know?

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  Reply # 478597 7-Jun-2011 16:06
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She didn't hand it to the store owner, she didn't hand it to police, she took it home and and tried to access it.

Intent is very apparent and has nothing to do with mind reading.

In a legal setting, arguing you were merely trying to find out who the owner was so you could return it would most likely fail, especially coupled with the demand for a reward once the owner contacted her.

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  Reply # 478614 7-Jun-2011 16:38
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Dratsab: She didn't hand it to the store owner, she didn't hand it to police, she took it home and and tried to access it.

Intent is very apparent and has nothing to do with mind reading.

In a legal setting, arguing you were merely trying to find out who the owner was so you could return it would most likely fail, especially coupled with the demand for a reward once the owner contacted her.


I agree with this. 
You can also infer her level of honesty from the attempt at negotiating what was essentially a ransom after firstly asking for/gently demanding a reward and then withholding the property while naming the outrageous price she would accept for its release based on its retail value.

I expect $100 is what she was going to try and sell it for if she got it unlocked.

DLS

gjm

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  Reply # 478620 7-Jun-2011 16:49
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Found someones samsung recently, saw them drop it while waiting for them to pull out of a park but couldnt get their attention before they drove off. Gave the guy a call and he picked it up and brought me round a box of assorted griffins biscuits even though I asked for nothing. He got his phone back and I got several thousand unnecessary calories...fair deal....Id say yes




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  Reply # 478805 7-Jun-2011 23:38
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Dratsab: The theft was complete as soon as she picked the phone up. Should have been reported prior to collection, so she could have been spoken to nicely by the local police.


It was only obvious what she was doing after collection though, up to that point she would have just seemed like any ordinary citizen trying to give someone's phone back. It would be quite an over reaction to bring the police to see them at that stage. I would probably try and give the phone to the shop owner, but if they weren't interested, I'd take it home and wait for them to ring the phone. If I found it on public land, I'd either take to the the police, or my house, depending on how far I was from the police station.

But...in the experience of my friends, anyone who asks for a reward is trying to rip you off. e.g. I have one mate who always loses his phone, he has had a few calls saying "come to my address to pick the phone up". He turns up, and gets the phone, no problem. I have had two other mates who have had someone ask for a finders fee, and then one found that his SD card had been stolen, and another found that someone had tried to access their phone before returning it.

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  Reply # 479205 9-Jun-2011 09:37
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OtterNZ:
Dratsab: The theft was complete as soon as she picked the phone up. Should have been reported prior to collection, so she could have been spoken to nicely by the local police.

It was only obvious what she was doing after collection though, up to that point she would have just seemed like any ordinary citizen trying to give someone's phone back. It would be quite an over reaction to bring the police to see them at that stage.

Exactly my point.  To say it's theft as soon as she picked it up is ridiculous, except with the benefit of hindsight.

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  Reply # 479240 9-Jun-2011 11:00
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Ive got my name and number on my first splash screen :)

I found a guy that done the same thing with his splash screen but he used his mobile number lol... that was a funny discussion.




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