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  #524212 21-Sep-2011 17:29
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So how would you change the patent laws to prevent this sort of thing?

And please understand this isn't a request to go legal postal... I'm merely thinking whats a 21st century type solution that still lets other players make competitive products whilst still protecting valid IP innovations.

(I mean we don't seem to have this same problem in the car market, yet they're all generically very, very similar apart from their badges)

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  #524213 21-Sep-2011 17:31
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It's only an objective discussion if you have at least some of the facts straight.
If you spout nonsense, and you know which bits, it's trolling.

Just don't bother, tdgeek, we've been around this circle before..
IIRC, you accused me of it when I posted something in an apple thread.
Since then, I stay away from apple threads... easy fixed
It's like preaching Christianity to Buddhists, we're not interested, especially when it's all made up... Laughing

You like apple products, we understand, and that's fine... everyone makes their choices.




I see. Fine. pardon me if I did not take the first smartphone literally as the IBM Simon in 1992. I was meaning the modern smartphones as we see today. My old E71 was a smartphone but its not a modern smartphone as I see it  I should have made my point clear, accepted.

As to trolling, no I don't hang around here to make up stuff, nor to spout nonsense when I know the bits as you put it.  Preaching Christianity to Buddhists, yeah agreed.

Leaving topic.

 
 
 
 


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  #524216 21-Sep-2011 17:33
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tdgeek: Leaving topic.


Thank God! (or should I be thanking Bhudda) Innocent

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  #524223 21-Sep-2011 17:49
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tdgeek: Apple began the GUI, it began the smartphone, so it has taken action when required.


Are you serious about this statement, or it is as others claim, just an attempt at trolling?

Apple did not invent the smartphone. There were smartphones before the iPhone - the Palm Treo, Microsoft Pocket PC Phone Edition, Microsoft Smartphone, Symbian... Those were all smartphones, with true development frameworks, native code and more. And they were in the market years before Apple announced the iPhone.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/smartdevices.asp for a list of original Microsoft Pocket PC Phone Edition and Microsoft Smartphone devices - dating from early 2001 through the years.








 

 

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  #524299 21-Sep-2011 21:34
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freitasm:
tdgeek: Apple began the GUI, it began the smartphone, so it has taken action when required.


Are you serious about this statement, or it is as others claim, just an attempt at trolling?

Apple did not invent the smartphone. There were smartphones before the iPhone - the Palm Treo, Microsoft Pocket PC Phone Edition, Microsoft Smartphone, Symbian... Those were all smartphones, with true development frameworks, native code and more. And they were in the market years before Apple announced the iPhone.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/smartdevices.asp for a list of original Microsoft Pocket PC Phone Edition and Microsoft Smartphone devices - dating from early 2001 through the years.






Maybe he means they started the 'smartphone revolution', everyone has one now.

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  #524301 21-Sep-2011 21:41
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Surely "starting the smartphone revolution" wouldn't be grounds to claim "ownership" or "patent" though.

Regardless, the claim was either incomplete or incorrect.




 

 

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  #524315 21-Sep-2011 22:04
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I am not an Apple fan but Samsung trying to block their devices is pretty scummy and stooping to their level. They should compete at a product level.




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  #524323 21-Sep-2011 22:19
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Firstly, I am sorry if some of my comments were poorly made, so let me clear the air and I'll move out. I don't wish to start any agro, it's already difficult to participate in some of these discussions if some percieve that I create aggressive commentary intentionally.

I didn't say that Apple invented the smartphone. As Ham suggested, I meant the modern smartphone that we all use these days. I don't have an issue if Apple see that their recent patented design has been copied, thats for the legal system to resolve. Equally, I don't have an issue if Samsung take similar action to defend that or to impart their own patents to dis-affect the iPhone5 release. If their claim has merit, they deserve a positive outcome. Yes, I am an Apple fan as far as the phone and tablet are concerned, but I am also objective. If I had been more specific in my post, rather than the vague comments I made, maybe that may have been seen.

Apologies again, guys.



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  #524362 22-Sep-2011 00:32
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patent that Apple use to sue Samsung in Germany is so generic! view HERE





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  #524380 22-Sep-2011 07:32
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nakedmolerat: patent that Apple use to sue Samsung in Germany is so generic! view HERE


That's only 4 pages, might be more detail later on in the document unless that is the entire thing. 




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  #524409 22-Sep-2011 08:40
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lokhor: I am not an Apple fan but Samsung trying to block their devices is pretty scummy and stooping to their level. They should compete at a product level.


You have to fight fire with fire.  Even if the courts awarded damages to the winning party it would normally never fully make up for their losses.

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  #524526 22-Sep-2011 11:35
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Google bought Motorola Mobility so they coul defend themselves against the patent troll that is Apple. They did not do it so they could go down the same path, it's purely a defensive tactic. Samsung is essentially the Apple of Korea so it's pretty despicable that they are going down that path.




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  #524641 22-Sep-2011 14:43
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oxnsox: So how would you change the patent laws to prevent this sort of thing?

And please understand this isn't a request to go legal postal... I'm merely thinking whats a 21st century type solution that still lets other players make competitive products whilst still protecting valid IP innovations.

(I mean we don't seem to have this same problem in the car market, yet they're all generically very, very similar apart from their badges)



If your asking me and I'm no legal expert...

I would start with this basic premise:

You can't patent an idea.

If you could the richest people on earth would be Science Fiction writers. Write a good book, patent the whole thing and when something you wrote about gets made you get rich. The 2001 defense of the iPad is an example of why trying to patent ideas is stupid. 

If you could patent the idea of a portable music player for MP3s Apple would be in deep trouble.

You can patent a process or technique or product but not an idea. 

The current thing is not about innovation, playing fair or anything close. It's about money. It is cheaper to block your competitors products than compete against them. It isn't the fault of Apple or Samsung, it is the fault of a broken system that allows them to do this. 

Oh well, that's how I see it. Comments welcome. 

You can go back to the bash is you want.  




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

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  #524652 22-Sep-2011 15:19
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phone sales




.............................................................

simple logic.


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  #524709 22-Sep-2011 17:53
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tdgeek:
SteveON: About time Apple got a taste of their own medicine... I seem to remember Apple suing Microsoft for countless things... for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation


It's about time the digital patient system was reworked.


I should have studied IP law. 


Own medicine????  I guess your biased. Whether its Apple, Microsoft or whoever, if a company invents or creates an idea or device first, they have copyright, in terms of a patent. Apple began the GUI, it began the smartphone, so it has taken action when required. The same applies if Apple used something that is held as patent by Microsoft or Samsung or whoever. Samsung says Apple is using its wifi technology, so fine, they will resolve that in civil court. Thats business.

These issues happen in business, its not an Apple thing. Its business.


Err the GUI came from the Xerox Labs. And there was plenty of other GUI's kicking around at the same time apples became mainstream (X-Windows, OS/2 Warp, and Amiga's Workbench are examples of GUI's that were far superior to Apples). Good old Amiga Workbench had doc's, widgets and all sorts of goodies that apple subsequently 'invented' years later.

And smartphones - Handspring are the creators of the Smartphone in my books. Not apple. I was using my Treo for MP3's, mobile email, mobile browsing, GPS (driving) and many other things for years before the iphone arrived.  I had my first Treo 180 in 2002 - 5 years before the iphone was released - and gave up my last Treo (680) a year ago for an Android device. While we're at it Android development began in 2003 - 4 years before the iphone hit the market.

Apple are a good marketing company, but their 'innovations' are few and far between. Mostly they bundle up all the ideas and present them an a format more acceptable for the mass market (plus glitzy marketing).

So if you really think apple invented all that stuff  you need to put down the kool-aid.

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