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  Reply # 638759 11-Jun-2012 10:04 Send private message

You not going to be done for reversing into a speeding cyclist thats coming out of nowhere down the foot path. He is the one here breaking the law.  How can it be the driver of the cars fault. He should not be on the sidewalk - end of story.

I feel feathers for some cyclists who think they have right of way all the time. Especially on sidewalks where I have been the witness to one taking out a pedestrian (an elderly lady) on the sidewalk one morning in Wellington.

Cyclists are suppose to be in the road, obeying the rules of the road.

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  Reply # 638761 11-Jun-2012 10:08 Send private message

Bung:
jonb:
I commend you for helping so well after they crashed into / you crashed into them. You were still at fault though.

There should be no excuse for hitting anyone on a footpath when exiting a driveway. Even if there is no visibility until you clear the tall fences, you should stop before you reach the path, and then inch out until you're across the path which gives people and cyclists time to stop.  Remember with tall fences they can't see you either.


jtbthatsme may have done that, how do you know that the cyclist wasn't talking to her companion and totally oblivious to any vehicle inching out of the driveway?


ok.  If they crash into the side of your car, that could be the cyclist's/scooterer's/skateboarder's fault in that scenario. In would also likely be a minor injury compared to a likely fatal one if you reverse over someone



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  Reply # 638764 11-Jun-2012 10:10 Send private message

Bung:
jtbthatsme may have done that, how do you know that the cyclist wasn't talking to her companion and totally oblivious to any vehicle inching out of the driveway?


I have seen pedestrians so engrossed with texting that they don't see cars coming either. So far I have not seen a cyclist doing the same but it's probably only a matter of time before I do.

A high school kid was so engrossed in their own thoughts they walked right through freshly laid concrete in front of our house while the concrete layers were still pouring it. They were just not paying attention to anything. Perhaps they were listening to music.

Pedestrians also need to take some responsibility for there own safety by paying attention while walking on the footpath. They may be right but I don't see any advantage to them in being dead right.


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  Reply # 638765 11-Jun-2012 10:10 Send private message

jonb:
jtbthatsme: Well I've hit someone on a cycle coming out of a shared access driveway both sides of the top of the road were blocked by tall neighbour fences.

The girl I hit was a missionary for one of the local Mormon churches. She was riding with a companion who had apparently told her she shouldn't be riding on the footpath. The young woman got a few cuts and bruises but nothing serious. I took them back inside the house to make sure that she was ok cleaned her cuts and gave them a drink to help calm her nerves.

We at the time both agreed that she had been at fault (I felt terrible about hitting her as all I could think of was how it could have been a lot worse.

I found out about a week later that apparently it had been discussed with the church about laying a complaint and attempting to have me charged with careless driving resulting in injury sort of thing which really pissed me off as it was not my fault at all.

It is illegal under most circumstances for a cyclist to ride on the footpath plain and simple it's like riding your bike without a helmet. I do agree that it is safer for kids to ride on a footpath but they definitely need to be working towards being on the road and realistically if your kids are not competant enough to be on the road then you probably should be riding with them. People need to take responsibility for their own safety and if they're not old enough to do this competantly then that's where your roll as a parent takes that place.


I commend you for helping so well after they crashed into / you crashed into them. You were still at fault though.

There should be no excuse for hitting anyone on a footpath when exiting a driveway. Even if there is no visibility until you clear the tall fences, you should stop before you reach the path, and then inch out until you're across the path which gives people and cyclists time to stop.  Remember with tall fences they can't see you either.


You are assuming that the cyclists aren't going hell-for-leather along the footpath and that they are paying attention!

I'd love to know what the relevant road rules were changed and the word pedestrian was dropped. The idiots making the rules probably felt it was easier than clarifying pedestrian as foot traffic or motorised scooter, and therefore passing the entire responsibility onto the motorist rather than fairly sharing the responsibility. Frown



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  Reply # 638766 11-Jun-2012 10:14 Send private message

geek4me:
Bung:
jtbthatsme may have done that, how do you know that the cyclist wasn't talking to her companion and totally oblivious to any vehicle inching out of the driveway?


I have seen pedestrians so engrossed with texting that they don't see cars coming either. So far I have not seen a cyclist doing the same but it's probably only a matter of time before I do.

A high school kid was so engrossed in their own thoughts they walked right through freshly laid concrete in front of our house while the concrete layers were still pouring it. They were just not paying attention to anything. Perhaps they were listening to music.

Pedestrians also need to take some responsibility for there own safety by paying attention while walking on the footpath. They may be right but I don't see any advantage to them in being dead right.



+1 - the responsibility needs to be shared amongst all parties, not just the motorist. And the current rules - as posted by scuwp - don't do this. Law and rule makers are getting lazy (or stupid) - not just in this regard, but everywhere!




scuwp: Just to clarify the rule as many seem to have old ideas that are no longer valid.  The rule states:

4.4Giving way when entering or exiting driveway
  • (1)A driver entering or exiting a driveway must give way to a road user on a footpath, cycle path, or shared path (as described by clause 11.1A(1)).
It doesn't say "pedestrian" or anything like that anymore.  If you are pulling out of a driveway, you are responsible, end of story.

You have to remember there are even legitimate motorised users of the footpath now, eg delivery couriers are often permitted under local council rules.

As far as cyclists are concerned:

11.11Riding cycles on footpaths, etc
  • (1)A person must not ride a cycle on a footpath or on a lawn, garden, or other cultivation forming part of a road.
    (2)Subclause (1) does not apply to a person who rides a cycle on a footpath in the course of delivering newspapers, mail, or printed material to letterboxes.
So again there are legitimate users riding cycles on a footpath.  

If a cyclist that could be on the road is screaming down the footpath at a great rate of speed, AND you took all possible care, then you may have an argument, other than that if you back out and hit a 4 - 5 year old, shame on you.
 

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  Reply # 638792 11-Jun-2012 10:42 Send private message

Interesting thread.

Has anyone else noticed that a high percentage of those that ride on the footpath also don't wear helmets? It's like they think that if they're not on the road the helmet rule doesn't apply either.

I'm a cyclist, and firmly believe that one must take personal responsibility when on the road. Always assume you haven't been seen, or that those in tins will do something stupid.

As for kids - if they're not capable of riding on the road they're similarly not capable of riding on the footpath.




Things are LookingUp....  A photo from my back yard :-)
http://www.astrophotogallery.org/u141-rodm.html 

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  Reply # 638794 11-Jun-2012 10:45 Send private message

LookingUp: Interesting thread.

Has anyone else noticed that a high percentage of those that ride on the footpath also don't wear helmets? It's like they think that if they're not on the road the helmet rule doesn't apply either.

I'm a cyclist, and firmly believe that one must take personal responsibility when on the road. Always assume you haven't been seen, or that those in tins will do something stupid.

As for kids - if they're not capable of riding on the road they're similarly not capable of riding on the footpath.


Don't have children do you.

Your solution is that under 12's should be banned from riding bikes. 

The reason is that young kids are not adults, they don't think like adults.  Their threat perceptions are not developed. 

Whats the big deal with cars stopping to check the footpath?  I always do. 

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  Reply # 638795 11-Jun-2012 10:47 Send private message

LookingUp:

As for kids - if they're not capable of riding on the road they're similarly not capable of riding on the footpath.


But kids are allowed to ride on the footpath. Its part of the rules.. As long as their wheel diameter is less than 355mm.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/cyclist-code/about-cycling/rules.html

ou are only allowed to cycle on the footpath if you are:
  • delivering newspapers or mail, or
  • you are riding a small wheeled recreational device that has a wheel diameter of less than 355 millimetres (typically tricycles or small children's bicycles).

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  Reply # 638797 11-Jun-2012 10:51 Send private message

raytaylor: 
They are not allowed to take their bikes out of the driveway unless they are going to school, and mom walks with them,
Kids shouldnt be out riding unsupervised on the footpath without a parent. 

 


Are you sure all the kids are trailing behind mum like obedient little puppies?

Kids don't listen. They play up.   They will race ahead. Walking speed is too slow for a bike. 

Being supervised really does not help much. 







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  Reply # 638799 11-Jun-2012 10:57 Send private message

surfisup1000:
raytaylor: 
They are not allowed to take their bikes out of the driveway unless they are going to school, and mom walks with them,
Kids shouldnt be out riding unsupervised on the footpath without a parent. 

 


Are you sure all the kids are trailing behind mum like obedient little puppies?

Kids don't listen. They play up.   They will race ahead. Walking speed is too slow for a bike. 

Being supervised really does not help much. 



Then your kids are out of control if they don't listen to you.

This is a typical parenting problem I have found here in NZ. Most parents just seem to have the "I cant do anything about it" kind of attitude. Of course you can. If you children do not listen to you when they out riding around, they don't deserve to be out riding around. Its their safetly at risk here.

"Kids dont listen. They play up" That sounds to me like a typical comment from a parent that has given up trying..

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  Reply # 638811 11-Jun-2012 11:08 Send private message

surfisup1000:

Your solution is that under 12's should be banned from riding bikes. 



On the footpath, yes.

As numerous other posters have pointed out, cars crossing footpaths are a hazard regardless of who is responsible for what.  Unless the cyclist is capable of making sound and safe judgements and protecting their own interests, they should not be on the road or footpath.

As an aside, one assumes that some children riding on the footpath must occasionally ride on the road, otherwise they'd only be able to ride around the block.




Things are LookingUp....  A photo from my back yard :-)
http://www.astrophotogallery.org/u141-rodm.html 

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  Reply # 638817 11-Jun-2012 11:17 Send private message

surfisup1000:
raytaylor: 
They are not allowed to take their bikes out of the driveway unless they are going to school, and mom walks with them,
Kids shouldnt be out riding unsupervised on the footpath without a parent. 

 


Are you sure all the kids are trailing behind mum like obedient little puppies?

Kids don't listen. They play up.   They will race ahead. Walking speed is too slow for a bike. 

Being supervised really does not help much. 




So, you are saying that because the children don't listen, then the parent is absolved of responsibility!

Yes, they don't think like adults, but then that is what parenting is all about - making those decisions for them until they are capable.

I drummed into our son at an early age that there was a reason he should listen to his parents, especially when he was out and about on his trike. He knew he had to slow down and be careful on roadways. If he was going awry then we'd race after him and grab the trike somewhere to stop it in it tracks (and him too!) and he'd then get a lecture.

PARENTS NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY - that is have the problem with this country now. Parents think this can shrug off the responsibility of being a parent - which is getting more and more difficult thanks to stupid laws and stupider law makers!!!

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  Reply # 638825 11-Jun-2012 11:26 Send private message

keewee01:
surfisup1000:
raytaylor: 
They are not allowed to take their bikes out of the driveway unless they are going to school, and mom walks with them,
Kids shouldnt be out riding unsupervised on the footpath without a parent. 

 


Are you sure all the kids are trailing behind mum like obedient little puppies?

Kids don't listen. They play up.   They will race ahead. Walking speed is too slow for a bike. 

Being supervised really does not help much. 




So, you are saying that because the children don't listen, then the parent is absolved of responsibility!

Yes, they don't think like adults, but then that is what parenting is all about - making those decisions for them until they are capable.

I drummed into our son at an early age that there was a reason he should listen to his parents, especially when he was out and about on his trike. He knew he had to slow down and be careful on roadways. If he was going awry then we'd race after him and grab the trike somewhere to stop it in it tracks (and him too!) and he'd then get a lecture.

PARENTS NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY - that is have the problem with this country now. Parents think this can shrug off the responsibility of being a parent - which is getting more and more difficult thanks to stupid laws and stupider law makers!!!


Well said...

Parents in this country seem to believe they not responsible for the safe upbringing of their children.

If a child has no road sence, and is riding around on the footpath and is hit by a car because he/her was not looking where he was going. 99% responsibility lies with the parent.



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  Reply # 638826 11-Jun-2012 11:26 Send private message

keewee01: ...

PARENTS NEED TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY - that is have the problem with this country now. Parents think this can shrug off the responsibility of being a parent - which is getting more and more difficult thanks to stupid laws and stupider law makers!!!


Now THAT I totally agree with!




Things are LookingUp....  A photo from my back yard :-)
http://www.astrophotogallery.org/u141-rodm.html 

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  Reply # 638831 11-Jun-2012 11:32 Send private message

keewee01: that is have the problem with this country now.


Please allow me to take this opportunity to head you off at the pass. Any post including the words above is probably heading to left field. 

Life is dangerous, and not everybody makes it. This is sad but it is also the way it has always been and will always be. 

As far as cycling goes neither footpath or road are actually great options. What we need are more cycle lanes and politicians with the will to actually annoy motorist for the sake of other road users. Plenty of Auckland main arterial roads have on street parking, why not remove this and turn the extra lane into a cycle way?

In Wellington this isn't really an option because plenty of houses have no off street parking but it could actually be an option for Auckland.

Why not put in more judder bars in the city centres to slow down traffic and make if safer for others at the expense of motorist convenience?

Well, I guess we know the answer to the above questions: the motoring vote is bigger than the cycling one but still it's worth raising. 




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