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1795 posts

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  Reply # 638927 11-Jun-2012 13:38 Send private message

Improve (or offer) some training/tuition at schools for kids to learn about cycling responsibly. (I think some schools do this?)

The way I see it is if we teach kids to rid a bike properly, to understand the rules, responsibilities, and awareness that goes with being on a vehicle. Then down stream they'll better make that transition from cycle to motorcycle or motorcar.

Oh... and I've just spent a handful of days driving through the Netherlands. Cycle-lanes and cyclists everywhere.... And all seemingly well, working harmoniously with motorised traffic. But then they've had decades to get to this position, where we're expecting all vehicle users to change their habits and attitudes between weather events

7594 posts

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  Reply # 638996 11-Jun-2012 15:19 Send private message

jonb:
jonherries: When I was young, I was riding to school on the road and was taken out by a car backing out of a driveway. The person driving wanted me to pay for the damage to their car. Needless to say this didn't happen, in fact I had to pay to get my bike fixed (I believe it was about $78).

The most interesting part was that by riding on the road, there was a large risk that I would fall off into the path of the traffic on the road like what happened to the woman in Auckland last year who swerved to miss the opening car door. I guess this is why parents like their kids on the footpath.

Since that experience I have always been cautious about cyclists, and have given them a wide berth, I hope they appreciate the space as much as I am happy to give it to them.

Jon


One thing I've noticed in NZ compared to the UK is definite increase of drivers here reversing out of driveways into main roads.? Everyday you see people reversing out of a driveway, and then across two lanes of traffic, before stopping and driving away. I put it down to the general shoddy standard of driving (I would say general shoddy standard of driving in NZ, but I've only really driven around Auckland so can't comment for the rest of the country). I can't remember ever seeing someone do that manoeuvre into a busy road in the UK. Reversing out of your driveway without bothering to check for people on the footpath is just another symptom, in my opinion.


Reversing into an actual road is madness, and could possibly be considered dangerous driving if caught. Normally there will be a verge(used to be cycle lanes) on the sides of the road to back into.

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  Reply # 639005 11-Jun-2012 15:24 Send private message

surfisup1000: A child has a right to ride on the footpath, and this is the safest place. Personally, I've been hit more times on the road by cars running through give-way signs than on a footpath.

?If a car comes roaring out of a driveway and hits a child on a bike it is certainly not the parents responsibility . ?It is primarily the motorist since they have broken the law.?






My interpretation of the law, and IANAL, is that cyclists don't have any right to ride on the footpath, as it is illegal to ride a cycle on the footpath in New Zealand, unless you are a postie. If a cyclist riding on the footpath runs into the side of a car that is pulling out of a driveway, then it is the cyclists at fault, as they hit the car, and were illegally riding on the footpath. Cars pulling out of driveways have to give way to pedestrians, but a cyclist is not a pedestrian, it is considered a vehicle, and must drive on the road.


445 posts

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  Reply # 639011 11-Jun-2012 15:30 Send private message

As a parent I have some choices

I can either drive my kids everywhere or I can encourage them to use their bikes. I do the latter on most occasions.

Do I have a problem with them driving on wide speedy roads or narrow slow roads - gernerally no.
Do I have a problem with them cycling on narrow speedy roads. Absolutly yes.

Do I have a problem with drivers and cyclists dodging pot holes, cracks in the road, bumps in the road, road cones, fences on the road, heavy equipment parked all over the place. Absolutley yes.

Do I think drivers exiting driveways should watch out for granny on her mobility scooter, the kid on his scooter or ripstick, the postie, the junk mail person, the dog not on a lead, the keen jogger. Absolutly yes. Can't see the difference with a cyclist.

So I've measured the risk and would much sooner my kids hit a car at 10km or be hit by a car doing 5km while on a footpath in a narrow fast street than be hit by a car doing 40km or a SUV doing 25km or avoid a person opening a car door.

Thats why I've instructed them to ride slowly on a footpath when the need arises and to always be alert to drivers coming out of a driveway. They've also been told if a driver comes knocking on my door for some insurance money for side impact damage they will be getting no pocket money till the day they retire!

That said the two kids I know who have been hurt in a bike /car collsion in the past two weeks were kids riding on the road and who rode into the back of a stationary vehicle.



1151 posts

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  Reply # 639017 11-Jun-2012 15:33 Send private message

Good to see a sensible parent contributing. 

How do we get you to write national cycling policy for children and parents? 




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

434 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 12
Inactive user


  Reply # 639038 11-Jun-2012 15:49 Send private message

Several comments:

1) I have no time for the spandex wearing nazis who have to prove their right to use the road. 
2) The road is for sharing cars and cyclist, share and respect each other
3) I like the idea of cycling and i think ideas such as cyclist should pay tax and cyclist should have rego plates is stupid. Part of income tax pays for the roads and it is a sad day when you need to pay rego on your push bike. 

4) I am not sure i agree with the argument it is safer for cyclist on foot paths. Is it really safer for them to ride closer to cars exiting driveways? I got knocked of my bike as a kid by riding on the footpath. On main street like the city centre I think it is safer for cyclist to be on the footpath (where i live they even have cycling lanes on the footpath in some parts of the city centre and i don't know why they don't have it everywhere). But on residential streets i think it is safer for cyclist to be on the road. 

5) A couple of times while walking along the footpath I have had a cyclist wizz pass me from behind very close when i had no idea they were there. That is not safe, what if i changed my direction?

6) I have always wondered why cycling lanes are an addition to the road and not the footpath. It seems completely stupid lets put a cycling lane inbetween a turn of lane and a straight ahead lane so all cars moving into the turn lane have to cross the cyclist lane wtf! Do they want cyclist to be killed ? Let's put the cycling lane right in the path of opening drivers doors (seriously?)  I also think cycling lanes should be wider although some idiot cyclist still ride on the edge of them anyway. 

7)SOME cyclist (usually the spandex wearing nazis from comment 1) do absolutely nothing to help themselves and deserve a good punch in the face (figuratively speaking). Someone please tell me why some cyclist INSIST on riding half in the car lane, they are probably the same ones complaining about cars passing them too close MOVE THE ____ OVER! There are also the idiots that ride side by side taking up half the road some even around blind corners. We have all seen them, it is like they are asking to be killed. 

8) check out this guys videos there are a few , some i agree with him others he acts like a idiot not even using the cycling lane then complaining about cars passing him too close  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WHf0y-AU4I&feature=plcp

155 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 639043 11-Jun-2012 15:56 Send private message

Bung:
jonb:
I commend you for helping so well after they crashed into / you crashed into them. You were still at fault though.

There should be no excuse for hitting anyone on a footpath when exiting a driveway. Even if there is no visibility until you clear the tall fences, you should stop before you reach the path, and then inch out until you're across the path which gives people and cyclists time to stop.  Remember with tall fences they can't see you either.


jtbthatsme may have done that, how do you know that the cyclist wasn't talking to her companion and totally oblivious to any vehicle inching out of the driveway?
I would think the rule of " top of the T goes before me" would come inti effect

1151 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 639047 11-Jun-2012 16:02 Send private message

As a pedestrian you feel a bit intimidated when cyclists wizz past you on the footpath. 

That is how a cyclist feels all the time riding on the road with cars going past. 

Wellington and Auckland are not set up to be cycle friendly but Auckland has terrible traffic problems and Wellington is compact so they should be great places to cycle. 

Neither road or footpath are a great idea as cyclists go much faster than pedestrians and much slower than cars. 

Car drivers know they will come off better then the cyclist in a crash and drive accordingly.

The Netherlands got mentioned a while ago. They have had a long policy of accepting motorists will be disadvantaged if cyclists are advantaged and make policy for bike anyway. 

Unless this happens, it will be same old, same old and kids (along with grown ups) will keep getting knocked off bikes one way or the other. 






Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

7594 posts

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  Reply # 639119 11-Jun-2012 17:05 Send private message

minimoke: As a parent I have some choices

I can either drive my kids everywhere or I can encourage them to use their bikes. I do the latter on most occasions.

Do I have a problem with them driving on wide speedy roads or narrow slow roads - gernerally no.
Do I have a problem with them cycling on narrow speedy roads. Absolutly yes.

Do I have a problem with drivers and cyclists dodging pot holes, cracks in the road, bumps in the road, road cones, fences on the road, heavy equipment parked all over the place. Absolutley yes.

Do I think drivers exiting driveways should watch out for?granny on her mobility scooter, the kid on his scooter or ripstick, the postie, the junk mail person, the dog not on a lead, the keen jogger. Absolutly yes. Can't see the difference with a cyclist.

So I've measured the risk and would much sooner my kids hit a car at 10km or be hit by a car doing 5km while on a footpath in a narrow fast street than be hit by a car doing 40km or a SUV doing 25km or avoid a person opening a car door.

Thats why I've instructed them to ride slowly on a footpath when the need arises and to always be alert to drivers coming out of a driveway. They've also been told if a driver comes knocking on my door for some insurance money for side impact damage they will be getting no pocket money till the day they retire!

That said the two kids I know who have been hurt in a bike /car collsion in the past two weeks were kids riding on the road and who rode into the back of a stationary vehicle.




All of those other people on footpaths will be going relatively slowly, say 5km/hr, and will themselves be watching out at driveways. Cyclists on footpaths speed, going perhaps 20km/h easily, so there is a major difference. I think it is a lot safer to ride a cycle on the road, apart for cars opening doors without looking first, which is illegal too.
Potholes on roads and other hazards shouldn't be there, and people should speak to the council if they are, as your rates are going to wards road maintenance.
As a kid on my cycle, my parents wanted me to ride on the road, infact they told me off for riding on the footpath, when I should be on the road, as it is illegal, and it is more dangerous with cars coming out of driveways. Although in those days there were more cycle lanes. There did seem to be a move by councils about 10 years ago, of getting rid of cycle lanes.

445 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 68


  Reply # 639209 11-Jun-2012 19:07 Send private message

 
Potholes on roads and other hazards shouldn't be there, and people should speak to the council if they are, as your rates are going to wards road maintenance.
Ha ha. I see you don't live in Christchurch then. My kids wouldn't know a pot hole free road if it was presented on a platter. 

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  Reply # 639234 11-Jun-2012 19:34 Send private message

mattwnz:
surfisup1000: A child has a right to ride on the footpath, and this is the safest place. Personally, I've been hit more times on the road by cars running through give-way signs than on a footpath.

?If a car comes roaring out of a driveway and hits a child on a bike it is certainly not the parents responsibility . ?It is primarily the motorist since they have broken the law.?






My interpretation of the law, and IANAL, is that cyclists don't have any right to ride on the footpath, as it is illegal to ride a cycle on the footpath in New Zealand, unless you are a postie. If a cyclist riding on the footpath runs into the side of a car that is pulling out of a driveway, then it is the cyclists at fault, as they hit the car, and were illegally riding on the footpath. Cars pulling out of driveways have to give way to pedestrians, but a cyclist is not a pedestrian, it is considered a vehicle, and must drive on the road.



In that case, feel free to run over anyone on a bike. 



7594 posts

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  Reply # 639249 11-Jun-2012 20:08 Send private message

surfisup1000:
mattwnz:
surfisup1000: A child has a right to ride on the footpath, and this is the safest place. Personally, I've been hit more times on the road by cars running through give-way signs than on a footpath.

?If a car comes roaring out of a driveway and hits a child on a bike it is certainly not the parents responsibility . ?It is primarily the motorist since they have broken the law.?






My interpretation of the law, and IANAL, is that cyclists don't have any right to ride on the footpath, as it is illegal to ride a cycle on the footpath in New Zealand, unless you are a postie. If a cyclist riding on the footpath runs into the side of a car that is pulling out of a driveway, then it is the cyclists at fault, as they hit the car, and were illegally riding on the footpath. Cars pulling out of driveways have to give way to pedestrians, but a cyclist is not a pedestrian, it is considered a vehicle, and must drive on the road.



In that case, feel free to run over anyone on a bike.?




There is a difference between running over a cyclist by speeding out of a driveway at speed and hitting them front on, and a cyclist running into the side of the car who is speeding on the footpath. The second one can be unavoidable. The laws are there for a reason.

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  Reply # 639308 11-Jun-2012 21:18 Send private message

BraaiGuy:
Dratsab:
I always try to back into driveways and spaces in parking lots. I go by the theory "park facing the direction you wish drive". It makes things safer for everyone, although it'll never get around cyclists travelling at speed on footpaths.


But you backing into the parking space before parking... Hows that different to backing out after parking? You still backing up half the time. 

What you seem to have completely overlooked is that when I pull up to my driveway (or wherever it is I want to reverse my car into) I will have had an unimpeded view of what's on the footpath as I got there.

1795 posts

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  Reply # 639330 11-Jun-2012 21:42 Send private message

Almost got a bicycle imprint in the left hand side of the car on the way home this evening......
Quarter after six and dark, poorly lit semi rural dogleg (off-set) intersection. Cyclist had no lights and was dressed in black, just saw a glint off something before I turned across his path which allowed me to spot him. A visit to a $2 shop would get him a flouro vest and a safer commute....

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  Reply # 639337 11-Jun-2012 21:50 Send private message

Dratsab:
BraaiGuy:
Dratsab:
I always try to back into driveways and spaces in parking lots. I go by the theory "park facing the direction you wish drive". It makes things safer for everyone, although it'll never get around cyclists travelling at speed on footpaths.


But you backing into the parking space before parking... Hows that different to backing out after parking? You still backing up half the time.?

What you seem to have completely overlooked is that when I pull up to my driveway (or wherever it is I want to reverse my car into) I will have?had an unimpeded view of what's on the footpath as I got there.


There are dangers with backing into a driveway too, one being if you have kids, who may run out to see you as you come home. I remember seeing TV ads about the dangers of reversing a number of years ago. I think they should look at making reversing alerts, and cameras on SUVs mandatory in the future. That would possibly save a lot of accidents. I do remember when I was doing my paper run, that I almost ran into a side of a car speeding out frontwards out of a driveway, so it isn't just reversing that is the problem.

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