Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
Buying anything on Amazon? Please use the Geekzone Amazon aff link.




3596 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 487

Trusted
Subscriber

Topic # 108711 4-Sep-2012 08:53 Send private message

I saw this article in the Herald regarding Bruce Willis taking Apple to court over his paid for music collection.

It got me thinking, do I actually own the music I have downloaded from the likes of Amplifer.co.nz etc or is this just an iTunes thing?

Obviously if you own a hard copy, its yours to sell lend etc as much as you like but I haven't considered downloaded music in this light before?

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
1793 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 72


  Reply # 681158 4-Sep-2012 09:00 Send private message

kiwitrc:...snip... I have downloaded from the likes of Amplifer.co.nz etc or is this just an iTunes thing?

What do their T's & C's say about it.

Watchmaker Wizard
2431 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 58

Subscriber

  Reply # 681159 4-Sep-2012 09:01 Send private message

Despite owning a physical copy, you're still pretty limited with what you're allowed to do with it.

It'd depend on the source, buried within the 30-odd pages of T&C's for iTunes, you're pretty much agreeing to only leasing the music\apps etc from them. Just another reason to use alternatives.






3596 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 487

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 681160 4-Sep-2012 09:05 Send private message

oxnsox:
kiwitrc:...snip... I have downloaded from the likes of Amplifer.co.nz etc or is this just an iTunes thing?

What do their T's & C's say about it.


All I could find was this

Amplifier.co.nz  retails downloads in MP3 format.  The MP3 format is not subject to restriction management controlling how you are able to move the file between your computer/digital player/CD etc.  MP3 format files are compatible with nearly all commercially available digital music players including Apple's iPod.

But I was interested to find out on a bigger scale ie what others do regarding downloads.

I have emailed Amplifer to ask.

804 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  Reply # 681179 4-Sep-2012 09:50 Send private message

I don't really understand the need for ownership of music anymore. Spotify allows you to download to your device whatever you want. There is more music I want than I could ever afford to own.

1965 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 503

Trusted
Spark NZ

  Reply # 681182 4-Sep-2012 09:54 Send private message

kiwitrc: I saw this article in the Herald regarding Bruce Willis taking Apple to court over his paid for music collection.

It got me thinking, do I actually own the music I have downloaded from the likes of Amplifer.co.nz etc or is this just an iTunes thing?

Obviously if you own a hard copy, its yours to sell lend etc as much as you like but I haven't considered downloaded music in this light before?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/sep/03/no-apple-bruce-willis

Myth busted.

Cheers - N




3596 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 487

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 681185 4-Sep-2012 09:56 Send private message

Yep I saw that but question still stands do you actually own downloaded music or are you just renting it?

2799 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 282

Moderator
Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 681189 4-Sep-2012 09:59 Send private message

The Herald have removed the article. On the ball as always.




Samsung Galaxy Note 3 N9005
ROM: Stock Telecom release 4.4.2

If you can't fix it with a Big Hammer, chances are you've got an electrical problem!

1151 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 65


  Reply # 681191 4-Sep-2012 10:00 Send private message

This is kind of becoming a metaphysical question. 

Even when we bought music on discs we didn't actually 'own' the music. There were plenty of limits on what you were able to do with 'your' CD. You couldn't broadcast it or show it publicly without approval for example. Sure, we bought and sold second hand CDs but I think in a very strict sense this was actually illegal, but just one of those things that was never enforced. 

What you actually bought was a licence with which you could do various things with the music as well as the physical plastic disc. Thing was the disc was pretty secure and under your physical control. 

Now with downloaded music it is a bit more complicated as while the licence to listen is pretty much the same you don't have anywhere near as much control. 

So, long story short... No, you don't own the music as you own physical things, you have bought a licence to listen to the music you downloaded under certain terms. The Ts & Cs might also say, 'these terms are subject to change'. 

Bit like software really, enjoy. 




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?



3596 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 487

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 681210 4-Sep-2012 10:32 Send private message

crackrdbycracku: This is kind of becoming a metaphysical question. 

Even when we bought music on discs we didn't actually 'own' the music. There were plenty of limits on what you were able to do with 'your' CD. You couldn't broadcast it or show it publicly without approval for example. Sure, we bought and sold second hand CDs but I think in a very strict sense this was actually illegal, but just one of those things that was never enforced. 

What you actually bought was a licence with which you could do various things with the music as well as the physical plastic disc. Thing was the disc was pretty secure and under your physical control. 

Now with downloaded music it is a bit more complicated as while the licence to listen is pretty much the same you don't have anywhere near as much control. 

So, long story short... No, you don't own the music as you own physical things, you have bought a licence to listen to the music you downloaded under certain terms. The Ts & Cs might also say, 'these terms are subject to change'. 

Bit like software really, enjoy. 


Interesting, so assuming that the Bruce Willis story was correct in that you could not bequeath your itunes library to your kids, then the same would go for your record collection?

Also raises an interesting question as to whether say a company or family trust could buy the music, then which individuals would be allowed to listen to it.

Probably just another example of someone making rules but not thinking through how it would work in practice.

1756 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 145


  Reply # 681213 4-Sep-2012 10:43 Send private message

BigHammer: The Herald have removed the article. On the ball as always.


The whole Bruce Willis angle on the story (and hence the only reason the story got run) is apparently BS according to Bruce's wife  https://twitter.com/EmmaHeming/statuses/242631258310594562
"it's not a true story"

1151 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 65


  Reply # 681223 4-Sep-2012 10:56 Send private message

The thing is there are several different ways you can 'own' music. Owning a Beatles record is very different from owning the rights to reproduce the songs and sell them.

The thing that makes this all very complicated is the growing distance between the physical media and music.

You can bequeath you physical records to your children and the 'reasonable' principle means everybody accepts the licence to listen to the music goes with the disc.

With digital music the licence is tied to an account which is more personal than a physical record.

Therefore, when you die I guess the assumption is your account and everything connected with it dies with you?




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

3084 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 33

Trusted

  Reply # 681224 4-Sep-2012 11:03 Send private message

stevenz: It'd depend on the source, buried within the 30-odd pages of T&C's for iTunes, you're pretty much agreeing to only leasing the music\apps etc from them. Just another reason to use alternatives.

+1

I much prefer to have MP3 files on my hard drive or USB stick and use them when/where I please without reference to any online account or media management software such as iTunes.  Just give me the raw MP3 files in simple folders thanks, so I can manage them in any way I see fit.





gzt

4742 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 277


  Reply # 681227 4-Sep-2012 11:10 Send private message

Redigi is currently litigating aspects of this in the US vs Capitol Records.

[Edit: corrected link to point to legal arguments]

1151 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 65


  Reply # 681233 4-Sep-2012 11:14 Send private message

gzt: Redigi is currently litigating aspects of this in the US vs Capitol Records.

[Edit: corrected link to point to legal arguments]


Now that is very interesting and the record companies appear to want to have it both ways:

Universal claims that a digital download constitutes as a sale for one likely reason: when it comes to royalties paid to artists, payout percentages for a sale are significantly lower than a license. However, In the case of ReDigi and buyers right to resell their lawfully purchased digital music, EMI is claiming that a digital purchase is a license not a sale.

Wow, why am I not surprised? 




Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

1152 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 83


  Reply # 681375 4-Sep-2012 16:07 Send private message

When you purchase music either via digital download or physical disc from a shop you are limited to what you can do with it you can not use it in any commercial sense without contacting the media company that holds the rights to it first and negotiating an licensing/royalty fee

you can however move it around on any format you wish and play it on any personal player ... selling it however could be a shady situation you'd have to be able to prove you bought it and didn't just download it via edonkey or torrent you can give it away but once again proof of purchase must be given along with it

which pretty much leaves the easiest way to resell or give away music to someone else which is buy the physical disc or buy them an itunes card so they can download it themselves




Asus Crosshair V Formula AMD FX8320, 8GB Corsair Vengence LP, 2X Sapphire Radeon HD7850 2GB 1000/1300, 1x WesternDigital WD2500AAJS 7200rpm 8MB cache SATAII , 1x Samsung spinpoin F1 HD502IJ 1x storage mode, 2x Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD502IJ RAID0 Boot, 1x Pioneer DVR212s 18x DVDRW, SilverStone ST75F-P (750W) Full Modular PSU, OS WIN7 x64 ultimate SP1 (7601), SilverStone RaVeN RV02B-W (with USB3.0 upgrade)

 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic




Twitter »
Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





Trending now »

Hot discussions in our forums right now:

Has Spark (Telecom) locked their iphone 6 ?
Created by anewguy2014, last reply by michaelmurfy on 17-Dec-2014 14:32 (25 replies)
Pages... 2


Police Camera Van Disguise
Created by Reanalyse, last reply by RogerMellie on 20-Dec-2014 14:21 (48 replies)
Pages... 2 3 4


forgot how to unlock a car door
Created by joker97, last reply by joker97 on 19-Dec-2014 19:10 (49 replies)
Pages... 2 3 4


In defence of cats
Created by Rikkitic, last reply by DarthKermit on 17-Dec-2014 15:40 (68 replies)
Pages... 3 4 5


Slaughter of Innocents
Created by networkn, last reply by networkn on 19-Dec-2014 17:46 (64 replies)
Pages... 3 4 5


Spray Foam Insulation
Created by AACTech, last reply by timbosan on 19-Dec-2014 16:58 (36 replies)
Pages... 2 3


How to upload 150GB of photos to iCloud?
Created by josephhinvest, last reply by timbosan on 17-Dec-2014 15:05 (35 replies)
Pages... 2 3


Why I’m a paid subscriber to geekzone
Created by sdavisnz, last reply by freitasm on 20-Dec-2014 11:49 (33 replies)
Pages... 2 3



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.