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435 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 310796 24-Mar-2010 15:41 Send private message

nziced: Just read some of screebs posts. Verizon are crap in regards to fast ISP's in the states. There are hundreds of countries around the world that offer speeds of up to 110mb over fibre. Japan and the US are even about to release 1gb fibre. Mmmmm how I wish Telecom would go into liquidation and GTFO of New Zealand.

1gbps connection here


A bit of an exaggeration there considering there are only 196 recognised countries in the world and hundreds would imply at least 200.  

And I think its unfair comparing what is arguably consumer based product (Verizon).

And my last comment on this is do you really want Telecom to go into liquidation? So you want approx. 9000 more employees out of work, and it doesn't take a large stretch of the imagination to envision what this would do to our already fragile economy!

But it is good to see that people are passionate about this debate. I for one am for the fibre network although I confess I am not as up to the play as some of you around the technical facts. 

Whilst copper seems to be able to provide our short and near term requirements, it does appear long term fibre does win. Does that mean we should wait until we need it, or even 2-3 more years before we begin the roll out. I guess that is where the debate really is. So when is the critical time that we need to have this framework in place? And not just to make downloading games/movies faster, but to actually make a difference in the long term productivity of the country that I can see so many "knowledge" based industries requiring.

NZ does have a tendency to do just enough today and worry about tomorrow tomorrow. A good example is our motorway system. How many of you have driven the motorway after they've just upgraded it to 2 lanes wondering "why didn't they make it 3 - surely while you're doing the work it isn't that much more!" Someone I know is fond of saying "What is expensive today is cheep tomorrow" and I really do believe that.

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  Reply # 310812 24-Mar-2010 16:19 Send private message

nziced: Just read some of screebs posts. Verizon are crap in regards to fast ISP's in the states. There are hundreds of countries around the world that offer speeds of up to 110mb over fibre. Japan and the US are even about to release 1gb fibre. Mmmmm how I wish Telecom would go into liquidation and GTFO of New Zealand.

1gbps connection here


1GB fibre connections are already available in NZ. This is nothing new, you could go and sign yourself up tomorrow if you really wanted to. A 100Mbps connection also doesn't mean 100Mbps CIR or even 100Mbps to anything other than local traffic. People need to understand this basic fact before they start bragging about having fast connections.

You are also plainly unaware of the financial implications of the 2nd largest company in New Zealand going bust? NZ as a country would be screwed - you are really showing a total lack of any intelligence with a comment like that.


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  Reply # 310817 24-Mar-2010 16:28 Send private message

xplorer:
Your concerns are around;
-how much these cars cost (model T)
-how you might have to upgrade the barn to a "garage"


Fortunately the Model T was designed for dirt roads, as were other cars of the era. It was also designed to be affordable, despite being difficult to drive, and its popularity stimulated the industry to respond to market demand for better cars.

The demand really has to be there, and that is done by building local content and international links. BTW undersea fibre is wavelength multiplexed, so no need for lots of fibre cores. Just need a couple of cables for redundancy, and some high capacity end points.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  Reply # 310903 24-Mar-2010 18:16 Send private message

Hey, we all seem to be assuming here that the we build the network and wait for users to join. Actually, the fans wont come just to watch a lights flashing on a UNT -- they want relevant content. And content is not created by people who understand a network build.

It is net-centric services that will drive the FTTD rollouts, for both business and residential. Where are the innovators driving our information economy, making NZ content marketable worldwide? Any content that pays the user to get a faster connection is adding value for both consumers and providers, making the infrastructure affordable, and growing the whole economy.

Some ideas I can think of: (and some of them are complementary to each other)


  • VoIP and video conferencing is continuing to develop, but there might be more room for pre-packaged versions of services like virtual PBX and call centres etc that can be targeted to a wider market.

  • IPTV really needs to find a business model that doesnt need so much advertising as broadcasted TV. probably subscriptions or sponsored hosting by ISPs. Maybe 3D simulations are the way to go.

  • Online data storage/backup.

  • A comeback for the distributed supercomputer idea, CPU sharing for home cluster processing that would otherwise require a render-farm etc.

  • P2P network designed to showcase talent, whether amateur video, homegrown music, or animated media (like a cross between youtube and bittorrent).

  • Growth in web applications (eg cloud computing), probably growing from the accounting and project management software already out there.

  • Marketing packaged versions of open source firmware on embedded devices like multi-media centres, NAS servers, and web servers.

  • And of course endless gaming...





Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

635 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 311367 25-Mar-2010 17:39 Send private message

webwat: Hey, we all seem to be assuming here that the we build the network and wait for users to join. Actually, the fans wont come just to watch a lights flashing on a UNT -- they want relevant content. And content is not created by people who understand a network build.

It is net-centric services that will drive the FTTD rollouts, for both business and residential. Where are the innovators driving our information economy, making NZ content marketable worldwide? Any content that pays the user to get a faster connection is adding value for both consumers and providers, making the infrastructure affordable, and growing the whole economy.


You're "forgetting" that such services are already common overseas in fibre lit areas. This happened as a result of the fibre being available. Currently these services aren't available here simply because of data costs. Sky canned their Sky Online service last year because of the data costs to consumers and slow speeds (and maybe also costs to Sky for hosting the content). Who's going to start up say a cheap HDTV streaming service in NZ right now? It's completely impractical. Once there is FTTH, there's no problem, and the services will come. More FTTH available = more content, more content = more FTTH signups. You have to start by making FTTH available.

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  Reply # 311752 26-Mar-2010 21:35 Send private message

I know its chicken and egg... but it applicaiton development has to start somewhere. The first serious net-centric applications have already happened for businesses that can afford the required bandwidth. But FTTD rollouts will happen faster if we can drive it with more demand.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

635 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 311962 27-Mar-2010 23:45 Send private message

webwat: I know its chicken and egg... but it applicaiton development has to start somewhere. The first serious net-centric applications have already happened for businesses that can afford the required bandwidth. But FTTD rollouts will happen faster if we can drive it with more demand.


But that doesn't make any sense for the people who offer the services. No one's going to make services for a market that doesn't exist at all and would take years to come about. It only makes sense when the infrastructure is there, as people can sign up to fibre as soon as they realise they want/need it for those services. If the services were available now but fibre still wasn't, people would say "oh, I need fibre for this? Well I can't get it yet...". So in the mean time the companies offering those services are twiddling their thumbs for years until the fibre is built, no matter how big the demand for their services is. No one is going to do that. The infrastructure has to be built first.

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