PHEW.. Ok. First Post.

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thechampionmasterx

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Wannabe Geek

#11959 21-Feb-2007 02:21

Hey guys.

As far as registration goes, I'm only here to say a few words to the people who know too little.

You have no idea how lucky you are.

A few years ago, granted, we were all getting "the shaft" from Telecom. 128kbps down and 64kbps up with extravagant 500MB data caps. I remember going to Australia in 2001 and my cousins had 2mbit "cable". It was $79.95AUD a month with a 1GB data cap. Now THAT'S living! Or so I thought...

A few years later... 3.5mbit down, 128kbps up....

That's when Telecom should've told everybody to shuddup and listen.

It costs an ENORMOUS amount of money to run an ISP. Even a small one. Telecom aren't making any more money than they were when you had the 128/64, but the constant public complaining from the common consumer and media hyperbole have kept the expectations way up. It's not easy to rewire the country, and it's even harder if you have the noobs (frickless brainless Kiwi yobbos, henceforth referred to as "the complainers" and "everyone) breathing down your back. That's really what I'm getting at here. I tried to think of another term, but "Technophobes" is old hat and "Senior Surfers" is a little PC for me.

People think the fat cats at Telecom dress up in drag every Friday and drink expensive whisky while bathing in crisp Lord Rutherfords, but it simply isn't true. Granted, hyping everyone up by announcing "MAX!11!!" broadband speeds probably wasn't the best marketing move ever, but their intentions were good. They have to appeal to the complainers somehow.

But the funny thing is, the complainers don't know what they're buying in the first place anyhow.

What do the complainers want to hear? The truth? They won't like it. That's for sure..

The truth is Telecom ARE doing what they can, and they WILL do WHAT they CAN with WHAT they HAVE.. It WILL take time, and you WILL moan and compare and complain about how long it takes, but there's nothing you can do about it except wait.

I am not a Telecom employee/fanboy/robot or succubus.

This is how it really is. If you want fibre (fiber?) to the home, buy a time machine. Good things take time, and millions and millions and millions of dollars.

So if you're not going to put up for NEW DSLAMZ AND SUM FAST TORRENTS LOL, shaddup.

freitasm

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#61395 21-Feb-2007 06:57

Welcome to Geekzone... I agre with you that Telecom is working, and things won't happen overnight.

But there's nothing anyone can say against the facts that GoLarge users see an increase in speed when changing plans or even going to other ISPs. And this is sometimes not only on "managed" traffic.

kwaan

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#61428 21-Feb-2007 13:01

I lol'd when i read "Telecom is not making any money"

really?

cause they pay their 123 call centre people and other employees $17/hr with a free phone connection, cell phone, broadband connection and $20 call plan! Where is that money and serivces coming from? ISS?

The govt. crticises them and so does the 99% popluation of NZ'ers and you think they are cool and other are idiots.....from what it looks like you are a telecom employee/fanboy or i wouldnt be surprise if you are actually Theresea Gattueng!

Telecom is giving crappy services to it Go Large Users (Im not saying support p2p but give decent speeds!)

All of the exchanges are overloaded big time and telecom has not bothered spending any money.....i live in a fairly new suburban area and the current waiting time to get a phone connection here is 4months!!!!! really like there is a house here on every property now and more than 40% of the population here dosent even have a phone connection but telecom would rather pay the CEO $2 million + and not care about its customers.....

Did you forget the recent issue of some rich women in auckland who was waiting to get broadband for the last 2 years and telecom said no connections left.....SORRY and then vodafone and woosh came in and said screw telecom.....broadband is available here.....when it became a public issue telecom THEN connected her to the exchange.....SO WILL YOU LIKE TO TELL US ALL that how did telecom manage to connect her this time around when it became a public issue?

fact is that telecom is actually every friday opening expensive bottles of whiskey and champagnes.....and doing nothing....ADSL2 was promised like June 2005 and now its finally coming out after 2 years and guess only 1 exchange will get it in march.....the rest will still have to wait for another 3 months.....

Rural customers....telecom has not spent even a single dime on them....Xtra wireless is expensive as hell ISPS that offer wireless are so much cheaper than telecom....WHY? cause they are not getting the bandwith from telecom....they are getting it much cheaper at a reasonable rate from overseas.....why is it cheap? because those overseas providers dont stack up 93%GP on its services like telecom here does so that it can pay Theresea Gattueng over $4million + in payouts.....

shuddup and get the facts straight.....

barf

643 posts

Ultimate Geek

#61430 21-Feb-2007 13:14

I agree with the first post. Telecom surely are doing what they can with what they have. But this exhibits to everyone that there must be some big capacity problems in the back rooms, see the Go Large example.

Keep in mind, growth in traffic exceeds the growth in customers. Will Telecom be able to handle another year's growth with their network in it's current state?

Sniffing the glue holding the Internet together

thechampionmasterx

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#61433 21-Feb-2007 13:25

See?

I'm talking about historical fact. Just because in the past broadband has got "faster and cheaper", doesn't mean it can "faster and cheaper" everyday. Telecom shouldn't have opened the lines up, because they just don't have the space.

You pay for what you get. That's the way it's always been. "Go Large" is "Go Large" for a reason. False advertising aside, the tradeoff is speed for data.

As far as "holding back" ports, fair enough. As the E! insider above me pointed out, Telcom CAN offer service where they say they can't, but you have to keep in mind they need to maintain some sort of QoS for everyone else.

It's really difficult to explain to those with heads full of "I'm going to Fair Go and my wife left me because I don't have 7.6mbit downstream and Telecom killed my dog whine whine whine", and I'd love to break it down point by point, again, but I just can't be bothered. You either get what I mean or you don't.

bradstewart

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#61434 21-Feb-2007 13:27

The sane ones do see your point and agree. But there are those who see themselves as wronged by Telecom and are blinded by that

kwaan

70 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#61435 21-Feb-2007 13:36

There is a reason why telecom is upgrading the southern cross cable because its overloaded and they know when ADSL2+ comes out people are going to scream at them as they have when the 3.5mbit and FS/FS came out.....if the CEO wasnt lazy enough to do the upgrade earlier to the exchanges and the southern cross cable then this wouldnt have happened in the first place

guess why theresea gattueng is leaving? do you think she wants to? she has been forced by the american inverstors, either leave now or get fired? why was she going to get fired? cause she didnt do anything! govt had to force telecom to deliver faster internet and get NZ out of stone age while other countries are already living in a cyber world.....

if you think telecom is responsible, explain me the rich lady's fiasco who has not been able to get broadband for 2 years but as soon as it is a public issue telecom rushes to her door? is that not laziness or what?

tstone

381 posts

Ultimate Geek

#61448 21-Feb-2007 14:10

Can anyone dispute the fact that Telecom underinvested (in broadband provision) in years gone by and underanticipated future needs leaving NZ in the situation it is in now?

One can argue that as a monopoly and as a publicly owned company there was nothing wrong in doing what they did in the past i.e. they are not answerable to anyone except their shareholders. However, whilst returning fat returns to investors, customer service suffered (and continues to do so).

Personally, I cringe each time I think about contacting Telecom about anything because of my previous experiences. I have spent thousand and thousands of dollars with Telecom over the years and they treat me like an annoyance whereas other companies providing similar services fall over backwards to satisfy me. The difference between these companies? They were/are not monopolies whereas Telecom was/is a monopoly.

Is it Telecom's fault they were a monopoly? No, I don't think so. Could they have done better in the past? Yes I think so. Does it matter in the future? Yes, because I perceive that there will be real competition and after years of being treated badly a certain percentage of customers will take their business elsewhere. I know I will, I can't wait.

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on2it

94 posts

Master Geek

#61638 22-Feb-2007 20:41

kwaan:
All of the exchanges are overloaded big time and telecom has not bothered spending any money.....i live in a fairly new suburban area and the current waiting time to get a phone connection here is 4months!!!!! really like there is a house here on every property now and more than 40% of the population here dosent even have a phone connection but telecom would rather pay the CEO $2 million + and not care about its customers.....

...

Rural customers....telecom has not spent even a single dime on them....Xtra wireless is expensive as hell ISPS that offer wireless are so much cheaper than telecom....WHY? cause they are not getting the bandwith from telecom....they are getting it much cheaper at a reasonable rate from overseas.....why is it cheap? because those overseas providers dont stack up 93%GP on its services like telecom here does so that it can pay Theresea Gattueng over $4million + in payouts.....

shuddup and get the facts straight.....

This so clueless it's funny.

I'm guessing you're under thirty and don't recall when our glorious guvmint owned the telephone network it took more like four YEARS to get a connection. Or carless days for that matter.

/Helpful hints on/

Guess what, big organisations are bloody hard to manage and it's not for lack of resources. The government has revenues exceeding 40 billion (40,000 million) and couldn't organise a piss up in a pub.

It costs millions and millions of dollars to run additional backhaul once it's soaked by P2P Go Large traffic. Ask Vodafone.

As for rural broadband, Voda and TCNZ have spent just under $100 million dollars implementing number portability although overseas experience suggests bugger all people port their numbers - ever wonder what that money would have done for rural broadband?

The real reasons behind broadband pricing include geography, population density, GDP/head, the household budget constraint, return on investment, fixed vs marginal costs in a network, price elasticity of demand, market penetration curves etc.

Get yourself a degree in economics and marketing (preferably post-grad), actually work in industry for twenty years and you might get a few clues.

/helpful hints off/

kwaan

70 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#61660 22-Feb-2007 22:54

on2it:
kwaan:
All of the exchanges are overloaded big time and telecom has not bothered spending any money.....i live in a fairly new suburban area and the current waiting time to get a phone connection here is 4months!!!!! really like there is a house here on every property now and more than 40% of the population here dosent even have a phone connection but telecom would rather pay the CEO $2 million + and not care about its customers.....

...

Rural customers....telecom has not spent even a single dime on them....Xtra wireless is expensive as hell ISPS that offer wireless are so much cheaper than telecom....WHY? cause they are not getting the bandwith from telecom....they are getting it much cheaper at a reasonable rate from overseas.....why is it cheap? because those overseas providers dont stack up 93%GP on its services like telecom here does so that it can pay Theresea Gattueng over $4million + in payouts.....

shuddup and get the facts straight.....

This so clueless it's funny.

I'm guessing you're under thirty and don't recall when our glorious guvmint owned the telephone network it took more like four YEARS to get a connection. Or carless days for that matter.

/Helpful hints on/

Guess what, big organisations are bloody hard to manage and it's not for lack of resources. The government has revenues exceeding 40 billion (40,000 million) and couldn't organise a piss up in a pub.

It costs millions and millions of dollars to run additional backhaul once it's soaked by P2P Go Large traffic. Ask Vodafone.

As for rural broadband, Voda and TCNZ have spent just under $100 million dollars implementing number portability although overseas experience suggests bugger all people port their numbers - ever wonder what that money would have done for rural broadband?

The real reasons behind broadband pricing include geography, population density, GDP/head, the household budget constraint, return on investment, fixed vs marginal costs in a network, price elasticity of demand, market penetration curves etc.

Get yourself a degree in economics and marketing (preferably post-grad), actually work in industry for twenty years and you might get a few clues.

/helpful hints off/

this is so lol.....for start govt sold telecom in 1990 and just to to let you know that in 1990 technology wasnt that great that it is now.....in old days they didnt had half the technologies they have now to upgrade things.....and as for getting a economics degree.....i dont need one cause at the age of 21 i own my own house in rototuna in hamilton which is worth $600,000 and guess what iv'e paid off my mortgage.....how? i saved every single dollar when i worked in aussie making $16/hr at 7/11 since i was 17 and now i take home $1500/week making professional websites..... as for getting some work experience.....i have since the age of 10.....i had mastered VB 5 and by the age of 14 i was making programmes for my dad's friend.....just because you have a economics degree and 20 years work experience dosent means that you know more....good example is above where you didnt realise that technology in 1990 was different to 2007!!!!

get a clue first!

bradstewart

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#61662 22-Feb-2007 23:00

Lets stop getting personal here. There will be only one warning

on2it

94 posts

Master Geek

#61682 23-Feb-2007 07:08

Good on you.

The pricing and investment decisions for major infrastructure are more complex than small business

tstone

381 posts

Ultimate Geek

#61750 23-Feb-2007 12:45

OK, shouldn't large (and small) companies plan for the future? In my mind, forget the economics. This all comes down to capacity planning and watching what other companies do. If Telecom had foreseen the demand for broadband it would have planned for it. Instead they tried to squeeze as much out of what they had to maximise shareholder value. The end result is it shot itself in the foot by ignoring the government's intention to make NZ competitive.

Of course in 1990 this current situation couldn't have been anticipated. But some time between then and now surely the customer demand could have been anticipated and planned for. But wait, implementing a sensible broadband growth strategy would have taken too much money off the bottom line!

on2it

94 posts

Master Geek

#61752 23-Feb-2007 13:18

tstone: OK, shouldn't large (and small) companies plan for the future? In my mind, forget the economics. This all comes down to capacity planning and watching what other companies do. If Telecom had foreseen the demand for broadband it would have planned for it. Instead they tried to squeeze as much out of what they had to maximise shareholder value. The end result is it shot itself in the foot by ignoring the government's intention to make NZ competitive.

I think you'll find companies price services by balancing the demand for services with market penetration - in other words new products are introduced at higher prices because earlier adopters see higher value e.g. Playstation launches. Prices then drop to achieve further penetration in the available market. There's no point making more capacity available than the market demands at a certain price point.

So if the PS3 is launched at $1000, Sony will have so many units in the sales channel. After six months they'll drop the price to $699, say, having ramped up production to meet the larger market at the lower price point. If guvmint suddenly mandates a $299 price three months after launch and everyone wants one, is Sony at fault for not having enough units when their capacity planning wasn't expecting this price point so soon?

This ain't no hippy commune (well OK maybe Christchurch and Wellington are)

tstone

381 posts

Ultimate Geek

#61762 23-Feb-2007 14:39

Totally agree. The problem with your argument is that Sony has Microsoft, Nintendo, Sega etc. to keep them honest and, until recently, Telecom had no competitors. I accept your argument in a free market. In a monopoly market the incumbent can do anything they want (and in Telecom's case did).

thechampionmasterx

6 posts

Wannabe Geek

#62973 6-Mar-2007 15:06

I'm bumping this as judging by the first page, it's still not being understood.