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#25853 3-Sep-2008 16:49
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Welcome to the TVNZ7 Internet Debate (in association with InternetNZ) on Geekzone. Please use this discussion to post your questions regarding Broadband (includes infrastructure, productivity, sustainability).

This will be an organised debate on ICT issues, streamed live to the official website and TVNZ7’s site, directly from Avalon Studios, 23rd September 2008 9:10pm on TVNZ7 (Freeview).

The debate involves four politicians quizzed on major areas of ICT policy with questions coming from you through the online chat, a studio audience, and experienced journalists.

The politicians are Labour’s Minister of Communications Hon David Cunliffe, National ICT Spokesperson Hon Maurice Williamson, ACT Leader Hon Rodney Hide and Greens ICT Spokesperson Metiria Turei.

You can participate live through an IRC channel or by posting your questions in this forum.

Other topics include:

     * Broadband (includes infrastructure, productivity, sustainability)
     * Convergence (includes broadcasting and mobile)
     * Copyright (includes open source)
     * Cybersafety (includes privacy and security as well)
     * Digital Divide (includes TSO and rural as well)

We ask you post only questions in this thread. Please address your question to the person(s) you want to ask it. You are welcome to create your own discussion in the ICT Policies and Regulation forum.

You need to login to post in the Geekzone forums or complete a quick registration to get started.

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1 post

Wannabe Geek

  #163052 8-Sep-2008 12:33
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To all MPs on the panel-

Will you adjust tax rates to encourage further investment in broadband?
i.e. Increase taxes to fund broadband publically
or Decrease taxes to encourage private investment.

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Hawkes Bay
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  #163091 8-Sep-2008 15:27
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To Hon. Maurice Williamson,
  • What aspects of real business do you see broadband services as being important to.
  • Do you consider the importance of speed and quality of residential, rural and business broadband to be equal to each other?
  • After the election, would you take regulation in the telecommunications industry further, ease it off, or leave the status quo (specifically in regard to broadband services).
  • Aside from ruling for competitors to sell to each other at regulated rates, and splitting up Telecom, what can a party in power actually do to increase the overall quality of broadband offerings to New Zealand homes and businesses?
  • Would you step up and invest New Zealands money in better broadband infrastructure, or step back and let the private sector be the driving force? (Potentially with incentives offered by the government).
Tony Hughes
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Hawkes Bay

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  #163485 10-Sep-2008 13:55
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Will there be any formal standard that ISPs have to adhere to inorder to call their product broadband internet access? At the moment there are many documented issues with poor performance from ISPs and they are able to get out of any obligations by the clause of best efforts or similar in their terms and conditions, power companies have a standard they have to maintain, and with more and more people being reliant on internet access do you think its time that a standard was put in place to prevent ISPs having an easy out when their speeds drop to unacceptable levels?

And following on from that, since ISPs are selling data by volume transfered, and there are many cases where ISPs have had inaccurate or lagging information on the usage, is there any thought being put towards requiring that the measuring systems are audited in the same way that petrol pumps and butchers scales are at the moment?


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Ultimate Geek


  #164645 15-Sep-2008 21:56
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I'm going to leave National broadband to others at this moment - however what about the internation connections? We are linked to the outside world basicaly by the southern cross cable system.

Will Kordia (as an SOE) get a mandate to install the proposed trans tasmen fiber?

Will you step up to the plate and get something done? Its a 1 word answer...

Its a reality by our geographical location, not many cables come past the front (or back door) and Satellite connection is not the solution (does lack bandwidth / latencey when compared to undersea fiber ) so why are we still in this position?

I'm happy for my tax $$$ to be invested in something that brings about our so called "knowleadge" based economy that current goverment policy thinks is the way to go and allows New Zealanders to have a large pipe to the outside world.

Most undersea fibers run highly profitably, and with increases in technolgy and bandwidth, way over orginal specs, the pay back (in $$$ at least) is great if done properly. Why not give it a go?

Maybe even break out the number 8 wire and get a truely kiwi solution out there?

Go on, you know it almost makes sense!

I hope this is in the correct forum or I'm going to look a complete muppet.

kind regards


99 posts

Master Geek

  #164706 16-Sep-2008 07:58
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Are either of the major parties prepared, here in front of the nation, to give an unequivocal committment to improving rural telephony sevices, and providing fast internet access to the people who provide much of the nation's wealth?

687 posts

Ultimate Geek

  #164920 16-Sep-2008 20:14
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To all MPs:

Why is there so much focus on providing an essentially equal service to all areas of New Zealand? It is a vast waste of money and resources to try to aim for equivalent services accross the country (i.e. 10Mbit/s to most towns by 20XX), rather than have very separate plans for urban and rural. There is much talk about the "digital divide", but the fact of the matter is rural areas will always be behind urban in telecommunications due to their isolation and the cost of providing services in very unpopulated areas. Trying to give everyone the same service is disadvantaging the knowledge sector and the innovators in urban areas. It should be something like 100Mbit urban / 10Mbit rural.

Why are your plans for future broadband so modest? It is extremely ignorant and backwards to promise for example 10Mbit/s by 2010. You don't seem to realise just how far behind New Zealand is compared to countries such as Japan, South Korea, Sweden, Finland, etc. These countries have had vastly superior broadband for years, in the 100Mbit/s to 1Gbit/s range - and you are only just now talking about 10Mbit/s in the future. This is just going to put us further behind. When we have 10Mbit/s, they will have 10Gbit/s - a 1000 times difference. It is imperative that as an remote nation we are connected to the world at above world-standard speeds, not far below world-standard. There is no technical reason why this can't be done.

Why are you concentrating so much on broadband speed and penetration? Getting subpar broadband into all homes is useless when there are datacaps - and small ones at that. The key to IT future is ensuring no datacaps (or at least very large ones) so that the true potential of broadband can be unleashed. This will encourage people to actually want broadband when they can see what it can offer. An example where datacaps really hurt is the iTunes video store - they offer HD movies, which eat up the user's datacap very fast. Only one or two movies downloaded will take up the average user's entire datacap for the month, making the service all but useless. This type of service is typical in countries without datacaps. Other services that can be used are ones such as offline backup - regularly backing up all your data to a remote server - impossible in New Zealand due to datacaps, but again typical overseas.

Why is the Government so quick to spend billions of dollars on roads each year at a whim, while taking years to argue over whether to spend less than $1 billion on broadband? Broadband is the road system of the 21st century. As the population grows, roads will become more congested, but they can only be widened so far. Better broadband will in fact lessen road traffic due to telecommuting. Broadband use will increase even faster, but can easily grow to match demand - but only once an appropriate infrastructure is in place, which there isn't at present.

Why isn't the national broadband infrastructure (i.e. fibre across the country and to homes) nationalised? Broadband is not a luxury good, but a neccessity in the 21st century. Broadband infrastructure, like power and roads, is a natural monopoly.

1340 posts

Uber Geek


  #165250 18-Sep-2008 08:13
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To All

When unbundling of the local loop was announced, there was much talk of the positive impact this would have on the price and speed of Broadband in New Zealand. Does it concern you that the Broadband pricing and data caps offered by the country's incumbent (much to the frustration of the nation's internet community) remain unchanged since October 2006, and that the much talked-about ADSL2+ speeds are only available on the plans that either cost the most or offer the least usage?

Why is the broadband market stagnating and what does government intend to do to spur the price competition that was promised?


139 posts

Master Geek

  #165508 18-Sep-2008 22:50
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To the politicians cause i care lol...

What policy(s) do your party currently have that enshure that isps offering internet connections to consumers are willing and able to provide the services to a custermor regardless of what or how theire intending to use the service they payed for. And how do you enshure that these standards you have oposed are being met and what do you do to enforce them?

What are your regulations concerning internet nutrality and qos for all aplications running across the internet? Since it is pretty important that the internet not just run at a reasonable speed on average everyday all the time. But it is allso pretty important that all traffic should run at a reasonable speed and remain free of preferance and discrimination based on what type of traffic it is or what youre doing with that traffic e.g. you tube, p2p, p4p, ftp, file backups, web browsing, should all run at a reasonable speed. Does your policys inshure this? If they dont then what have you done instead to enshure that isps arent in a position where they could abuse this? And if they do then what are these regulations that do this, how are they enforced?

What has your party attempted to do to enshure that data caps will become much cheaper to keep up with the increasingly more common and popular, more data intensive internet activitys that exist today? And what do you think of the current position where in, in relation to data caps? And what will your party do to improve this situation.

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  #165726 19-Sep-2008 21:48
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What are the representatives going to do to ensure that the Broadband Initiative Funding does not get wasted by simply overbuilding fibre already laid by CityLink, Telecom, TelstraClear, Vector etc in Auckland, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin?

What assurances can they give us that will ensure that this funding is used only to extend the coverage of fibre?

17 posts


  #165732 19-Sep-2008 22:35
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steve98: To All

<snip>  Does it concern you that the Broadband pricing and data caps offered by the country's incumbent (much to the frustration of the nation's internet community) remain unchanged since October 2006, and that the much talked-about ADSL2+ speeds are only available on the plans that either cost the most or offer the least usage?   </snip>


You do not get to "purchase" ADSL2+ from Telecom.  When you purchase a DSL broadband plan you get ADSL2+ as a matter of course if you are served by an ADSL2+ DSLAM.  (assuming you are within 1800 metres of the exchange/cabinet  ... yadda ...yadda)  If you have an ADSL2+ capable modem you get the faster line speed as a matter of course.

The 'restriction' you are talking of is a caution to end-users who don't understand the vagaries of TCP/IP.

The plans that are tagged as 'not suitable for ADSL2+' are the FS/128Kb/s plans.  i.e. If you have a 16Mb/s (down) line speed you will not see anything faster than ~7.5Mb/s due to the lack of sufficient upstream bandwidth for the TCP/IP acknowledgement packets.

If however you have a Full Speed/Full Speed plan (one of the more expensive plans that you mention) there is no impairment of the downstream throughput.

The warning is therefore a "buyer beware" message - don't expect to get the best out of an ADSL2+ connection if you scrimp on the plan choice.

... move along, nothing to see here ...

19 posts


  #166032 21-Sep-2008 14:21
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Why is it that broadband speed is almost never as fast your ISP says it is?

For example, the download speed I get, after my ISP supposedly increased it from 2Mbit/s to 8Mbit/s actually stayed the same at 1.3Mbit/s, while the upload speed dropped from around 110Kbits/s to 60Kbits/s. This makes the connection frustratingly slow for any recreational content creation (uploading photos, movies etc) while putting limitations on the usefulness of new services like iTunes movie rentals (and lets not go into the question of data caps!).

I'd love to be able to choose the right ISP for my needs. But I want to know which one actually delivers on what they advertise.

For all panellists: What are YOUR policies to help deliver better service comparison information to broadband consumers?

413 posts

Ultimate Geek

  #166116 21-Sep-2008 21:20
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For all MP's

What are your plans investing money in laying fibre to residential areas?

Estimated timeline etc?

904 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #166635 23-Sep-2008 22:22
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Just listening to the live stream - are they asking any of the questions that have been posted? Maybe its just the politicans talking and not answering the questions!

rant mode off


3539 posts

Uber Geek


  #166651 23-Sep-2008 23:16
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knoydart: Just listening to the live stream - are they asking any of the questions that have been posted? Maybe its just the politicans talking and not answering the questions!

I watched for the last 40 minutes of the broadcast.  During that time, I didn't see any questions from Geekzone being addressed, although various others from e-mail and even Skype were broadcast.  I guess they were inundated with questions, many of them probably very similar, so had to be pretty ruthless with what was actually put on air.

It was a good debate, even quite entertaining at times.  Cunliffe is an excellent ICT minister.  It's just a damn shame that he has nailed his colours to the Labour Party mast.  Still, we will need a good opposition ICT spokesman to keep Maurice on his toes, so that he doesn't fall asleep at the wheel, or sit on his hands, as happened during his last term in office.

150 posts

Master Geek

  #167225 26-Sep-2008 01:48
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Someone should have pointed out that to watch the stream (live or otherwise) is going to use up over a gigabyte of ones datacap.

That would have been a good place to start the "why isnt NZ content free" debate.

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