Big drop in Sky subscribers

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#1549204 10-May-2016 12:31

tdgeek:

Their tech doesnt appear outdated to me, and their visual quality is excellent

They are only just replacing their mpeg2 boxes now. A 20 year old codec. If that doesnt define outdated then what does?

I cannot get a watchable feed of discover, nat geo or any of the other documentary channels from sky. They frame rate convert things poorly so every time there is a pan its juddery as hell on some of the other docco channels. There is no need to mangle things to a 50 FPS feed when HDMI is capable of 60 by the nature of the standards requirements, its the 50 FPS modes that are optional for displays to support.

Movies and soho content should be left at 24, but by speeding up to 25 they get room for a few more ad's each hour, same as radio likes to up the BPM on things slightly for more ad space.

Hopefully the move to mpeg 4 will free up enough capacity that they could deliver the actual resolution for a SD image at minimum, and possibly give an actual 1920 wide HD signal instead of the down ressed 1440 trash that they are so complacent with.

Richard rich.ms

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#1549216 10-May-2016 12:37

Rikkitic:

I think a point that is being overlooked in this discussion is that Sky has generally done a poor job of providing services up to now. They charge through the nose for their different packages and then dump advertising and those stupid promos on their viewers on top of that. I don't know what the current situation with pay TV is elsewhere in the world, but it used to be that the whole point of pay TV was that you didn't have to sit through the ads. Sky is double dipping here and it isn't particularly user-friendly. On top of that they double charge for their so-called 'premium' channels like Soho and the Arts channel and they tack more extra charges on for things that should be standard by now, like HD and the ability to record. Their technology also tends to be outdated and inadequate, and is the source of constant complaints. The point here being, on the basis of their past performance, why should anyone expect them to do better in the future? Their business philosophy is, and always has been, to cut corners on quality where they can, minimise new investment as much as possible, and maximise profit by charging as much as they can get away with.

Yeah, I hear you. I have lived and worked overseas and sky's service is worse than many free-to-air commercial offerings abroad. I was really shocked to see the service when I arrived back here after many years away. I don't think NZers know how bad the service is. I guess that the free-to-air is so poor that even sky looks good.l

But it also has to be said, a successful business today is viewed as one where you give as little as possible and charge as much as possible. Price gauging is now seen as good business - it's only us oldies who have a problem with it.

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#1549218 10-May-2016 12:40

MikeB4:

I would like to see Sky offer a smorgasbord service where the customer can build their own packages, for example.. Take the Free to air and add say Food, UK TV, The Top Gear Channel (aka BBC Knowledge), History, Living, Sport 1 and 2, Movies 1 and 2, BBC News. etc or variations like this completely at the customers choice with out having to take entire packages as it is now. However I dont want them to use rubbish hardware like Igloo but use their current box.

That would be great - I wonder whether any of those content providers would move into direct delivery models so you pay them directly without having to go through sky, netflix etc.

tdgeek

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#1549242 10-May-2016 12:43

richms:

tdgeek:

Their tech doesnt appear outdated to me, and their visual quality is excellent

They are only just replacing their mpeg2 boxes now. A 20 year old codec. If that doesnt define outdated then what does?

I cannot get a watchable feed of discover, nat geo or any of the other documentary channels from sky. They frame rate convert things poorly so every time there is a pan its juddery as hell on some of the other docco channels. There is no need to mangle things to a 50 FPS feed when HDMI is capable of 60 by the nature of the standards requirements, its the 50 FPS modes that are optional for displays to support.

Movies and soho content should be left at 24, but by speeding up to 25 they get room for a few more ad's each hour, same as radio likes to up the BPM on things slightly for more ad space.

Hopefully the move to mpeg 4 will free up enough capacity that they could deliver the actual resolution for a SD image at minimum, and possibly give an actual 1920 wide HD signal instead of the down ressed 1440 trash that they are so complacent with.

Many docos aren't that new, are you saying they downgrade high quality docos?

My MySkyHDi that I had was old but the HD was awesome

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#1549247 10-May-2016 12:48

tdgeek:

Many docos aren't that new, are you saying they downgrade high quality docos?

My MySkyHDi that I had was old but the HD was awesome

Yes, those channels are all sub-SD quality, 500 pixel wide rather than the 700ish that is normal for a widescreen 576i SD image. The bitrate is so low that whenever a nature documentary shows water or bricks or stones etc it becomes a piece of modern art, slowly resolving detail, only to snap back to a blocky mess at the next keyframe.

The quality on igloo is vastly better, still not HD, but at least it doesn't make it look like a hong kong bootleg VCD.

Good high bitrate SD would be ok for the filler channels, but instead it is compressed to the point that its a mess. And the audio is also super compressed as well. I actually think some of the channels are in mono because the center is doing all the work.

Richard rich.ms

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#1549250 10-May-2016 12:48

MikeB4:

I would like to see Sky offer a smorgasbord service where the customer can build their own packages, for example.. Take the Free to air and add say Food, UK TV, The Top Gear Channel (aka BBC Knowledge), History, Living, Sport 1 and 2, Movies 1 and 2, BBC News. etc or variations like this completely at the customers choice with out having to take entire packages as it is now. However I dont want them to use rubbish hardware like Igloo but use their current box.

Id expect that would require a re hash of the billing system. Maybe not. I foresee Sky being a sport channel with the others as you suggested being in a lower cost SVOD bundle, maybe discounted if you use Sport. Or the set fee that you can pic n mix with.

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#1549252 10-May-2016 12:50

I would rather just see all the content that is on the filler channels appear on an ondemand system and forget the idea of them being "channels" Its not live so no reason to watch on sky;s schedule.

Richard rich.ms

tdgeek

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#1549256 10-May-2016 12:53

richms:

tdgeek:

Many docos aren't that new, are you saying they downgrade high quality docos?

My MySkyHDi that I had was old but the HD was awesome

Yes, those channels are all sub-SD quality, 500 pixel wide rather than the 700ish that is normal for a widescreen 576i SD image. The bitrate is so low that whenever a nature documentary shows water or bricks or stones etc it becomes a piece of modern art, slowly resolving detail, only to snap back to a blocky mess at the next keyframe.

The quality on igloo is vastly better, still not HD, but at least it doesn't make it look like a hong kong bootleg VCD.

Good high bitrate SD would be ok for the filler channels, but instead it is compressed to the point that its a mess. And the audio is also super compressed as well. I actually think some of the channels are in mono because the center is doing all the work.

Yep, I get the water bricks. But nowhere near as you seem to see. On that, I was playing with Netflix last night. A doco was 2006 and it was absolute rubbish. I didn't mind the lower quality but the panning and shimmering was shocking, took me back to my video editing days when it didnt work well. So, went to a newer HD doco, sweet as a nut. But the Sky issues you mention, while I see them on some docos, it wasn't that bad for me.

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#1549257 10-May-2016 12:55

There are some shocking encodes on netflix. Many of the British things seem to have had a crap 25 to 30 fps conversion done on them so judder to hell.

Richard rich.ms

tdgeek

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#1549258 10-May-2016 12:57

richms:

I would rather just see all the content that is on the filler channels appear on an ondemand system and forget the idea of them being "channels" Its not live so no reason to watch on sky;s schedule.

I think they will all go OD, their box upgrade supports that, the need to drop costs to compete supports that. How they can manage a decreasing number of satellite users Im not sure on. FanPass, will become the main driver, sports, OD, no need to record, etc. The next 12 months will answer all these questions. If it doesnt, bye bye

I find it quite fascinating to be honest. We see the SVOD evolve, here is the last hold out requiring to do that.

tdgeek

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#1549263 10-May-2016 13:00

richms:

There are some shocking encodes on netflix. Many of the British things seem to have had a crap 25 to 30 fps conversion done on them so judder to hell.

Ah. Im ok with a soft image, we are watching old XFiles is no issue. Juddering I hate.

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#1549264 10-May-2016 13:01

jmh:

MikeB4:

I would like to see Sky offer a smorgasbord service where the customer can build their own packages, for example.. Take the Free to air and add say Food, UK TV, The Top Gear Channel (aka BBC Knowledge), History, Living, Sport 1 and 2, Movies 1 and 2, BBC News. etc or variations like this completely at the customers choice with out having to take entire packages as it is now. However I dont want them to use rubbish hardware like Igloo but use their current box.

That would be great - I wonder whether any of those content providers would move into direct delivery models so you pay them directly without having to go through sky, netflix etc.

Thats a massive change for them and everyone else in the food chain I expect. Given the low subscriber costs we get, Im not sure what that would do to improve things? Or do you mean everyone gets everything everywhere?

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#1549268 10-May-2016 13:08

jmh:

MikeB4:

I would like to see Sky offer a smorgasbord service where the customer can build their own packages, for example.. Take the Free to air and add say Food, UK TV, The Top Gear Channel (aka BBC Knowledge), History, Living, Sport 1 and 2, Movies 1 and 2, BBC News. etc or variations like this completely at the customers choice with out having to take entire packages as it is now. However I dont want them to use rubbish hardware like Igloo but use their current box.

That would be great - I wonder whether any of those content providers would move into direct delivery models so you pay them directly without having to go through sky, netflix etc.

We're bound to get something of that ilk eventually. There are already movements that way in the US. You want CBS content - you buy CBSAllAccess. You want Netflix Originals - you buy Netflix. Amazon Originals. Hulu is looking to offer what is the FTA channels streamed - at USD40/mth so you'd get your ABCDisney, Fox direct from the supplier too.

And sport - yup. Subscribe to NFL, NBA, NHL, EPL, PGA Golf, PSASquash (as has been exampled here) - all direct.

BTW - you'll end up paying the same or more to build your package. All the returns will accrue to the content owner. Sounds attractive to them.

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#1549274 10-May-2016 13:15

tdgeek:

I think they will all go OD, their box upgrade supports that, the need to drop costs to compete supports that. How they can manage a decreasing number of satellite users Im not sure on. FanPass, will become the main driver, sports, OD, no need to record, etc. The next 12 months will answer all these questions. If it doesnt, bye bye

I find it quite fascinating to be honest. We see the SVOD evolve, here is the last hold out requiring to do that.

Lease less transponders would be the solution when they take content off satellite and put it online instead.

I don't know what the beam configs are for that sat, but if they only cover NZ, and not AU, then optus might end up with a whole lot of useless capacity on it since NZ will in a few years have most people covered by fiber so not needing the satellite service for entertainment, and if sky drop off a few transponders, who else would want them? If they covered AU as well then they would still have considerable value as they are getting shafted with their broadband roll out so will be reliant on satellite transmission for a long time to come.

Still, its a bit early to have a huge migration from sat to fiber based service like vodafone are doing, but I can see that coming in the near future if other ISPs start to want to do the double play (triple play if you still have an old person phone) services. Can sky exist as a content purchasing inbetween, buying channels and re-selling them to the likes of vodafone to send on to customers? Who knows. Interesting times for sure.

Richard rich.ms

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#1549293 10-May-2016 14:03

ockel:

BTW - you'll end up paying the same or more to build your package. All the returns will accrue to the content owner. Sounds attractive to them.

I wouldn't mind that if my package was predominantly filled with the stuff I wanted to watch. I wasn't so keen on paying it when 80% of the content was of no interest to me whatsoever, but I had to take anyway.

While we're talking wish fulfilment, I'd like a streaming annual cricket pass. It's the only sport I watch on a regular basis, and it would be great to pay for just that and not ALL the sports just to see one or two games. I tried Willow TV but the quality was horrible and they didn't have all the matches. I just want to watch the Black Caps.

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