What don't you like about Tivo

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#286012 30-Dec-2009 09:35

I'd have to say I don't like the "must be with Telecom" requirement.

freitasm

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#286014 30-Dec-2009 09:42

Kyanar: I'd have to say I don't like the "must be with Telecom" requirement.

You don't have to...

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#286049 30-Dec-2009 13:06

Really? All the Tivo ads I've seen say "only on Telecom". So that's not actually the case? Hmm. Might be worth looking into then...

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#286115 30-Dec-2009 17:48

You only need to be with Telecom to access the CASPA on-demand stuff. Programmes and EPG will work with any ISP. Possibly the EPG is OTA downloaded...anyone?

You aren't missing much if you haven't got CASPA

Damon

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#286126 30-Dec-2009 18:08

What has put me off is not so much the cost, but whether it is value for money given what I already have.

I have been thinking about getting one, but haven't yet. There are a couple of things I have read/heard that put me off. Mainly, I don't like having my hardware under the network's control. The big issue is the potential incursion of DRM - I understand that it is possible for broadcasters to flag shows so that you can't transfer them to your home network, set shows to expire after a period of time etc (DRM on MySky HDi is also the main reason I haven't upgraded to that yet). Also, not having a "skip forward" button to deal with the ads is a turn off. While it does have some nice features, fundamentally I don't like having a "crippled" system, and for the comparatively high cost it can't do much more than my current setup.

Presently I have a Sky box going into a hard-drive DVD recorder, which is a bit of a pain as I have to set the recording on both the Sky box and the recorder separately, but this gives me (1) no DRM, (2) the ability to press the 60 second skip button every time ads come on; and (3) effectively unlimited storage as I can archive to DVD-R/RW - then DIVX or whatever if I need to compress it sown for storage. It also upscales the signal to the TV to 1080P which, while I concede isn't as good as proper HD, is pretty darn good.

I also have a WD HD TV with a 1.5TB drive which holds copies of all my DVDs (no more disc juggling). Earlier this week I purchased a Visione VE4000 HD set top Freeview box in the Harvey Norman Boxing day sale (will install it tomorrow). This apparently outputs HD over HDMI and component (no down-scaling), and according to the documentation will also record as a PVR to the 320GB USB hard drive I have spare - both in HD and in a format that is easy to transfer onto the computer network, the WD box etc. Moreover, it also has the full Freeview EPG. So I have a system where I can, or should be able to once I finish the setup:

1. Avoid DRM issues
2. Record a Freeview channel in HD (on the Visione Box) while watching another (the TV has a HD tuner)
3. Play pretty much any movie format (on the WD box, note: only DVDs I have purchased are currently on this, before anyone starts calling me a pirate!)
4. Skip ads at will
5. Burn to DVD (in SD obviously) off either Sky or Freeview, or even record on VHS should I feel a strange need to do so. Mostly I just use RWs as, given the vast amount of TV out there, I tend to watch then erase rather than cluttering the house by building a large disc archive.
6. Encode Freeview programmes in HD, and store them on the WD box for later viewing, or play on the laptop etc at will.
7. (hopefully) after transferring Freeview shows to my PC, use Comskip to automatically remove the ads before I watch them on the WD box.
8. (hopefully) legally download shows in the near future, and play on the WD box.

Cost of this was around $1,100 - DVD recorder ($499), WDTV Box ($220), 1.5TB Drive ($189), 320GB drive ($0, it was spare), VE4000 Freeview Box ($212). Not much different to the TIVO and, other than being slightly more difficult to programme than if I had an integrated EPG in the recorder, and lacking series link, I think it is a better setup.

In the future, I plan to replace the WD box and DVD recorder with a HTPC, so that I can keep the existing functionality (recording SD and HD from Sky and Freeview respectively) and also stream across my network. Will also add Blu Ray once I can get a North American zoned player.

Whew.... this turned into a longer post than I planned.

In summary, what I don't like aboout TIVO is the potential DRM issues, and whether it represents value for money. Whay I do like is that it is a tidy unit, which is probably easier for someone who doesn't like messing around with wires like I do.

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#286134 30-Dec-2009 18:30

Kyanar: Really? All the Tivo ads I've seen say "only on Telecom". So that's not actually the case? Hmm. Might be worth looking into then...

As said, you only need Telecom account if you are planning to use CASPA, their movie download service. Otherwise it'll work with any ISP - to download the EPG, and from remote controlling the box.

I wonder how many people didn't buy a TiVo because of this misunderstanding.

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#286372 1-Jan-2010 11:51

In that case, would I need a second LNB? A friend of mine indicated that he's managed to get Freeview and Sky working off the same LNB/dish but I'd always thought they were mutually incompatible (different satellite or something).

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#286383 1-Jan-2010 12:45

Kyanar: In that case, would I need a second LNB? A friend of mine indicated that he's managed to get Freeview and Sky working off the same LNB/dish but I'd always thought they were mutually incompatible (different satellite or something).

Freeview is on the same satellite so the existing sky dish would work fine with a freeview satellite receiver.
Of course Tivo uses the terrestrial freeview HD signal.

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#287310 6-Jan-2010 01:51

JimmyH: What has put me off is not so much the cost, but whether it is value for money given what I already have.

(snip)

1. Avoid DRM issues
2. Record a Freeview channel in HD (on the Visione Box) while watching another (the TV has a HD tuner)
3. Play pretty much any movie format (on the WD box, note: only DVDs I have purchased are currently on this, before anyone starts calling me a pirate!)
4. Skip ads at will
5. Burn to DVD (in SD obviously) off either Sky or Freeview, or even record on VHS should I feel a strange need to do so. Mostly I just use RWs as, given the vast amount of TV out there, I tend to watch then erase rather than cluttering the house by building a large disc archive.
6. Encode Freeview programmes in HD, and store them on the WD box for later viewing, or play on the laptop etc at will.
7. (hopefully) after transferring Freeview shows to my PC, use Comskip to automatically remove the ads before I watch them on the WD box.
8. (hopefully) legally download shows in the near future, and play on the WD box.

Ease of use doesn't make your list, I take it you live alone or belong to a family of hardcore geeks? I found that most functions for a custom setup took about 15 explanations before they really sank in - in other words, I usually ended up being the voice-controlled remote. So far I have found Tivo lessons only need to be repeated 3 times. If I really can't be bothered then I can direct them to the 7-day 0800 support number. Good luck getting anyone at HN or WD to answer at 7pm on a Sunday.

You can pretty much copy and play anything you like between PC and Tivo as long as the format is supported. Once the files are in the right place then anyone can figure out how to transfer and play them. DRM amounts to a "please respect copyright" onscreen para.

CASPA is a lame duck with its tiny library and strait-jacket DRM, but I consider it an intriguing add-on that may be improved in future - not a key selling point.

For someone who tends to watch then erase, you must really hate ads to expend all that effort on stripping them out. Tivo may not have a skip button, but it doesn't take long to become a dab hand at catching the start of the programme at triple fast forward.

The only thing Tivo doesn't provide from your list is Sky TV which you have conveniently excluded from your costing. If you have mates, can get late passes and don't have clinical agoraphobia then live rugby is available for the cost of a pint per game. Living without a Sky subscription is not just a good idea for Tivo - it's a good idea for life.

This has become a longish post that is now going to get even longer as I list my minor Tivo gripes:

1. No single-button way to resume a recording if you've switched over to check on live tv. The Enter/Last button should do this as its current function of switching to the most recently viewed tuner isn't useful with only 2 tuners. Top complaint in my household.
2. I like Tivo Suggestions, but it's a tuner hog. I wish I could tell it to only record non-primetime suggestions because I'm already familiar with what's on in primetime. Also it persists in recording second-runs of shows that I've Season-Passed as first-run only. Language-based control has already been mentioned on gz, +1 from me too.
3. The keypad shortcuts should be user-definable.
4. I would like each tuner to have a "home channel" that they go back to after a period of inactivity, so that I don't have to season-pass (and later clean up) daily shows like the news that I often miss the start of.
5. No jump to start button. You have to jump to end, then play again (yes we're down to the rats and mice now)
6. Very limited group functions - would be handy to mark an entire group as Keep Until I Delete.

A time-poor geek is hardly a geek at all

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#287317 6-Jan-2010 07:56

5. No jump to start button. You have to jump to end, then play again (yes we're down to the rats and mice now)

Aha, it seems you don't have to. I was sitting here thinking..I wonder if they thought of this...tried it and it worked.

You can actually chapter skip backwards in the same way as the forward skip. You just start rewinding at any speed then press the [->¦] button under the FFW button? Although the arrow points to the right, you will actually jump back to the previous chapter. A few presses takes you back to the start.

Lemon squeezy.

Damon

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#287318 6-Jan-2010 07:58

My key issue - and maybe it's just something I haven't figured out yet, is that while watching in recorded mode after "Pausing" live TV, accidentally changing channel kills the pause-recorded session, so that when you get back to that channel you end up watching live again, having missed a chunk of what was pause-recorded. That's an easy mistake to make, because while watching a pause-recorded session there is no indication that this is not "live" anymore, so when a boring bit comes on, I just go channel surfing instead of fast-forwarding, only to realise a second later "oh sh!t, it was pause-recorded, and now I've lost that session."

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#287792 7-Jan-2010 14:38

Kookoo, one option if you want to channel surf, while watching a timeshifted live programme, is to press the live-tv button first, that will switch to the other tuner, so the time-shifted recording is still available on the previous tuner. Although, as you say, you need to remember you are time-shifted to start with.

I agree with previous posters that having an option to continue playing the most recently played item would be good. Sort of like Alt-TABing between live tv and a recording.

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#287929 7-Jan-2010 22:12

Kiwi1971:

5. No jump to start button. You have to jump to end, then play again (yes we're down to the rats and mice now)

Aha, it seems you don't have to. I was sitting here thinking..I wonder if they thought of this...tried it and it worked.

You can actually chapter skip backwards in the same way as the forward skip. You just start rewinding at any speed then press the [->¦] button under the FFW button? Although the arrow points to the right, you will actually jump back to the previous chapter. A few presses takes you back to the start.

Lemon squeezy.

Damon

Even quicker - press jump to end twice in succession. The first click jumps to the end of the recording, the 2nd click jumps back to the start.

Kookoo

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#287937 7-Jan-2010 22:26

catdog:
Even quicker - press jump to end twice in succession. The first click jumps to the end of the recording, the 2nd click jumps back to the start.

Which buton is "jump to end"?

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Kiwi1971

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#288028 8-Jan-2010 09:04

Kookoo:
catdog:
Even quicker - press jump to end twice in succession. The first click jumps to the end of the recording, the 2nd click jumps back to the start.

Which buton is "jump to end"?

I was going to say that but at the time I thought that this only worked with shows that were still being recorded and that a pre-recorded show would only chapter skip if you pressed that button. But thinking about it again, it would only chapter skip if I was fast forwarding at the time.

Damon

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