Time to give electricity the flick?

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104 posts

Master Geek
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#2048770 4-Jul-2018 09:49

Thanks

I dug deeper. Night is midnight till 8am. I thought it may have been something like 9pm to 7am, but having said that, weekends as well is great, Im looking at solar PV, so solar for the day and night/weekend rates seem a nice option

Many different retailers have different hours for day & night (off peak & peak). Genesis is generous to those in Christchurch with night rate (off peak) from 9PM to 7AM and all of SAT & SUN. Others (I think Meridian) for Christchurch residents I think start from 11pm to 7am.

luckiestmanalive:

Incidentally, I don't know why the hydro generators would allow price spikes to occur if they can shift their water allowance for the day around. They should be allocating more water to those periods where the prices are highest, thereby causing prices to equalise, somewhat. Perhaps the demand forecast is having trouble adjusting to the changeover to winter temperatures and demand?

As I said before, the wholesale market pricing is RIGGED! Even Bitcoin prices don't spike 300 - 600% daily and this is where it will hurt Flick users. You have to wonder why hydro generation can't simply meet the demand and smooth out these price spikes. But it's also in their interest NOT to increase hydro generation as the water is a store of energy. They need it to last through the summer months.

Why do people have to suffer with all these wholesale price spikes? Nowhere else experiences such erratic, HUGE swings in prices and with the concerns of climate change, I don't think it's a good time to be buying electricity at the open market rates. Hedging is a ways to provide certainty.

nickb800

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#2048895 4-Jul-2018 12:16

pogo:

What I would like to know is if Genesis offer the low night rate only for the meter connected to the hot water, or whether is applies to all power used between certain time. I run a heat pump and change the electric car overnight, so it would be critical that those are included. The timings for this are important too. 11pm-6am is not good enough, but it would be interesting if they could match Flick's off-peak hours (9pm-7am, and all weekend). I doubt it.

They do both. Night rate for controlled (e.g. hot water) will be slightly cheaper than uncontrolled night rate. If you want night rate for electric car/heat pump/etc then you must accept their 'day' rate, which will probably be marginally higher than the normal anytime rate.

Timing will be based on your local lines companies tariffs - so exactly the same as Flick if you are talking about the same tariff

voy1d

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Master Geek
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#2048899 4-Jul-2018 12:23

pogo:

It seems the Huntly outage has not finished. It was:

And now:

HLY_4 outage will always be extended, it's in the process of being decommissioned. However, whilst the cabling allows the unit and TX to be connect to the bus, this needs to be in there. The only HLY units in operation these days are HLY_1, HLY_2, HLY_5, HLY_6

luckiestmanalive

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Master Geek
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#2048926 4-Jul-2018 12:56

SBQ:

As I said before, the wholesale market pricing is RIGGED! Even Bitcoin prices don't spike 300 - 600% daily and this is where it will hurt Flick users. You have to wonder why hydro generation can't simply meet the demand and smooth out these price spikes. But it's also in their interest NOT to increase hydro generation as the water is a store of energy. They need it to last through the summer months.

Why do people have to suffer with all these wholesale price spikes? Nowhere else experiences such erratic, HUGE swings in prices and with the concerns of climate change, I don't think it's a good time to be buying electricity at the open market rates. Hedging is a ways to provide certainty.

It's OK, SBQ - you don't have to suffer wholesale prices and that is the point. We all get to choose and experience the outcomes ourselves, which is better than being forced to take the fixed prices offered by retailers. I would prefer that we had even greater choice, such as taking spot prices but having the option to pay a fixed amount each month to cap my exposure to price spikes or to limit the cost of dry spells.

Good point about hydro generation being able to store their water - they must be regularly reviewing their storage and inflows and outflows to decide how much to generate each day. However, they are ahead of the curve this year when it comes to storage so I would have thought they would be taking greater advantage of some of the periods where prices are spiking.

Also, if the wholesale market is rigged, then it is because there is too little responsiveness by consumers and other generators during periods of high prices. Any weakness in competition in the spot market will cause hedge contract prices to be higher than they would otherwise be. There is no free lunch.

JuanPerez

9 posts

Wannabe Geek
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#2049240 4-Jul-2018 20:39

nickb800: I'm looking to switch from Flick to Genesis. I am on a triple saver tariff with flick (peak/off-peak/night). However based on my smart meter screen and the EA registry, my meter is configured as day/night. The EA registry shows me on the triple saver tariff though. Genesis want to charge $180 to put me on triple saver tariff as they say my meter will need reconfiguring.

It seems that Flick are able to offer variable tariffs based on aggregating my half hourly usage, whereas Genesis insist on me having 3x 'virtual' meters to record usage on each tariff. Doesn't seem to bother the lines company either way (Electra). I would have thought that the half hourly data is subject to the same rigour/auditing so I struggle to understand the problem.

Has anyone navigated through this problem before?

I suspect the problem is likely caused by Genesis' inability to process/aggregate half-hourly data into the tariff buckets, i.e. Genesis don't have the IT systems capable of doing it. This would apply to most of the other traditional retailers too, but not some of the newer ones like Flick and EK who have built their own billing platforms to include this capability. As a result Genesis have to get the metering equipment provider to do the aggregation, and that requires the virtual meters.

nickb800

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#2049463 5-Jul-2018 09:44

JuanPerez:

nickb800: I'm looking to switch from Flick to Genesis. I am on a triple saver tariff with flick (peak/off-peak/night). However based on my smart meter screen and the EA registry, my meter is configured as day/night. The EA registry shows me on the triple saver tariff though. Genesis want to charge $180 to put me on triple saver tariff as they say my meter will need reconfiguring.

It seems that Flick are able to offer variable tariffs based on aggregating my half hourly usage, whereas Genesis insist on me having 3x 'virtual' meters to record usage on each tariff. Doesn't seem to bother the lines company either way (Electra). I would have thought that the half hourly data is subject to the same rigour/auditing so I struggle to understand the problem.

Has anyone navigated through this problem before?

I suspect the problem is likely caused by Genesis' inability to process/aggregate half-hourly data into the tariff buckets, i.e. Genesis don't have the IT systems capable of doing it. This would apply to most of the other traditional retailers too, but not some of the newer ones like Flick and EK who have built their own billing platforms to include this capability. As a result Genesis have to get the metering equipment provider to do the aggregation, and that requires the virtual meters.

Thanks, bummer. $180 seemed step though, I think Flick might have mentioned $60 so might try arrange reconfig through them.

michaelmurfy

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#2052273 9-Jul-2018 21:09

I've been looking around a bit after Flick's daily charges have gone up considerably over the last few years (it seems anyway) and found a power company from Nelson who are offering both a pretty good daily charge and seem like a decent Flick competitor on the technology side of things - https://www.powerdirect.co.nz/

They're another Spot provider and it seems I can save a bit more by joining them. They've also got a proper native iOS app. I've just signed up so will see what they're like.

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Hammerer

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#2052333 9-Jul-2018 22:57

michaelmurfy:

I've been looking around a bit after Flick's daily charges have gone up considerably over the last few years (it seems anyway) and found a power company from Nelson who are offering both a pretty good daily charge...

Can you explain how you're saving over Flick?

There is no significant saving for me as a standard user inclusive plan in Wellington (PowerDirect vs Flick; all prices ex GST). Even at 16,000 units I'd only save $1.60 a year:

Fixed daily charge $1.775 vs $1.775 so no difference
Unit charge $0.06673 vs $0.06683 so a saving of $0.0001 (1/100th of a cent per unit)

I presumed that there would be a better case for low user which I expect you are on (PowerDirect vs Flick; all prices ex GST) but it looks like I'd only save $13.60 a year if I used 8,000 units:

Fixed daily charge $0.30 vs $0.30 so no difference
Unit charge $0.13333 vs $0.13503 so a saving of $0.0017 (17/100th of a cent per unit)

michaelmurfy

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#2052349 9-Jul-2018 23:56

Yes you're right - I misread this. For some reason I calculated it as closer to $190/yr based on my use which was wildly inaccurate.

I've cancelled my switch, like you say it isn't worth it in my case and it appears I am getting near the absolute lowest power pricing anyway. It is however good to see a new player in the spot pricing market (based in Nelson) with very similar tech to Flick.

Teeps

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Ultimate Geek
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#2054168 11-Jul-2018 10:22

Did anyone else on the Wellington EV tariff with Flick Electric get overcharged on their latest bill?
On the bill I received last night I was charged the new EVB tariff for Sunday 1 July, but all usage for the previous week was charged at peak rate and not split into day and night rates making a $15 overcharge on the bill.
I have also noticed that Flick bill for more kWh than the usage data I download from their website. I first noticed it 2 months ago and contacted them but they still haven't come back with a reason or fixed it yet so would be interesting to know if this is just my account or whether others routinely get charged for more kWh than they actually use?

nickb800

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#2054935 12-Jul-2018 12:15

It's really interesting seeing Flick's Facebook page at the moment, as bills for the high spot price period in late June have hit people's inboxes.

Unfortunately with their mass marketing campaign, they have got a lot more uninformed customers than they had last year, whereas they were originally a niche provider for geeks and/or those who can easily accommodate highly variable bills. Now there's heaps of people convinced that Flick is a scam because they raise prices in winter when we use power most, and wondering how their bill can be double when they didn't even use the dryer (comparing usage in $ not units).

Their customer service appears to be crumbling with 1+ week delays in responding to emails, presumably as uneducated customers complain about expensive bills, when realistically there's nothing Flick can do to help other than reassuring or potentially letting them pay their bill off over two weeks instead of one (which isn't really their business model!). It's getting to the point where I as a customer who is cool with the ups and downs, and appreciates that Flick doesn't control spot prices, is considering leaving not because of the high spot prices, but because of the poor customer service whenever spot prices are high.

I don't think Flick's current model, even with Volt, is sustainable as a mass market offering. The only way they will survive or grow from this scale is with a hedged spot price offering - they are currently trialing a 6 month fixed spot price "Fixie". Is anyone here on the trial - what do they charge per unit for generation?

pogo

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Master Geek
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#2054957 12-Jul-2018 12:39

they are currently trialing a 6 month fixed spot price "Fixie". Is anyone here on the trial - what do they charge per unit for generation?

Here's what we got in an email:

Thank you for your time earlier. I have included all of the information we have on FIXIE below. Basically, FIXIE is an option for customers who want fair, transparent power prices, but prefer slightly more predictable billing.

If you choose to become a FIXIE trialist, you’d be agreeing to sign up to a 6 month plan that lets you fix your generation price for that period. Your generation price will be fixed at 8.8 cents if you’re in the North Island and 8.6 cents in the South Island, with a small admin fee of 0.3 cents per kWH (charged for the duration of your time on FIXIE). You still get all the costs of supply at their wholesale rate, and our Flick fee for looking after you is still completely separate and transparent.

Most networks in New Zealand charge a different price depending on the time of day, or the time of year for getting power to your place, and you’ll still get these different prices with FIXIE. So, it'll still help you to move your usage around to lower price periods and we'll of course let you know of the best times to use power in your Flick app!

I've attached the Ts and Cs, and the general Flick Ts & Cs will continue to apply. An early exit fee will apply if you want to leave FIXIE before the six month term is up. This is $15 (plus GST) for every month you leave early. For example, if you leave 4 months early, the exit fee will be $60. Why $15? That’s the amount we’ve calculated that we need to make sure we can cover the costs associated with fixing your price based on a 6 month commitment. Our early exit fee covers this, and nothing more - it'll be as fair and transparent as all of our other fees.

Terms and Conditions

mentalinc

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#2054966 12-Jul-2018 12:45

nickb800:

. It's getting to the point where I as a customer who is cool with the ups and downs, and appreciates that Flick doesn't control spot prices, is considering leaving not because of the high spot prices, but because of the poor customer service whenever spot prices are high.

Why do you need customer service? they send you an auto bill, it auto pays itself... what else is there to talk to them about on a regular basis?

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tdgeek

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#2054977 12-Jul-2018 13:01

mentalinc:

nickb800:

. It's getting to the point where I as a customer who is cool with the ups and downs, and appreciates that Flick doesn't control spot prices, is considering leaving not because of the high spot prices, but because of the poor customer service whenever spot prices are high.

Why do you need customer service? they send you an auto bill, it auto pays itself... what else is there to talk to them about on a regular basis?

Not applying to everyone, but many see Flick as cheaper, then when its winter its a horror. Those on fixed price providers, get an evenly spread price. If I was on Flick, I'd pay an extra amount each month to them as a buffer, so a credit will build up over Summer and be used in Winter. That way you keep the annual benefit from Flick and avoid the higher spot prices. Or just pay the bill whatever it is, as annually it is supposed to be cheaper, and thats all that really matters, not what any D/D may happen to be

nickb800

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#2055012 12-Jul-2018 13:49

@pogo thanks, that's really interesting. So 9.1c in the North Island. By my calculations, comparing Genesis esaver (online bill, direct debit) with Flick, their effective average spot price is 7.3c for std users and 7.1c for low users (that's caculated based on Gensis per unit price - flick charges except generation).

@mentalinc I have had issues with my meter/tariffs. My lines company had some glitch in their system which resulted in them changing my tariff from peak/offpeak/night to day/night, without telling me. And of course I have timers up the wazoo based on the peak/offpeak/night tariff times. I completely agree that their 'business as usual' systems are sweet as and shouldn't require customer service intervention. And i think they are staffed on that basis. But when things go wrong, you do need a human to help you whether on the phone or email, and it's frustrating when they're log jammed with people that they can't actually do anything for

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