Home Ventilation - Separating the Salient from the Sales

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Home Ventilation - Separating the Salient from the Sales - Your thoughts?

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#826995 28-May-2013 13:22

We moved last year and are looking at this right now as well.

In our experience the DVS we installed in our previous house was without doubt THE BEST money we have ever spent. We had floor to ceiling windows in the lounge just running with water and within two days it was all gone to never be seen again.

So I find it very hard to believe it when people say PPV systems don't work in NZ climates !

We ended up insulated in the roof, under the house, removed the old woodburner and installed a heat pump but the DVS was faultless.

Now were in our new place and were going through the same thing (another 1960's home). We have a wood burner pumping out masses of heat into one room and it goes nowhere else. The four bedrooms have simple panel heaters which take the chill off but little else (as expected).

So were about to pull the trigger on another DVS.

HRV are much more expensive and the sales bloke couldnt tell me anything other than 'we are the best'.

Our local council offer a 'review' service but his advice was fine for a new build, which was to shut up shop with double glazing etc, but how on earth to you plug every hole and gap in a 50 year old house. Its just not possible.

I'm looking forward to reading this thread to see what other experiences are.

timmmay

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#827004 28-May-2013 13:28

I have a 100 year old house, I've plugged it up fine, insulated, partly retrofit double glazed, ventilation system, two heat pumps. It was 20-21 degrees when we went to sleep last night, and made it down to about 18 degrees by 6am. That's not bad for such an old house.

I had one of the big ventilation sales guys come to talk to me, DVS or HRV, I forget. The guy was completely full of it. He made claims that he couldn't back up, to the point I made a complaint about him to the branch, which no doubt was laughed at as they know they're full of it.

Putting in a ventilation system will help with moisture problems. So will opening all the windows and sticking a fan in one of them, creating airflow. The downside is throwing away all that expensive heat.

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#827012 28-May-2013 13:38

Slumlord: Thanks. Yep, I only need ventilation - trying to prevent condensation and moisture build-up. Not worried about heating.

We have one in our home, and it pretty much does nothing to stop condensation. It is a big house, and they are probably not made for some types, including houses with skillion roofs. I have yet to see a good scientific independent report on them, and they effectiveness and cost effectiveness.

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#827016 28-May-2013 13:42

Putting in a ventilation system will help with moisture problems. So will opening all the windows and sticking a fan in one of them, creating airflow. The downside is throwing away all that expensive heat.

On the NZ energy website, it says that to ventilate your home, all you need is to open the windows. I don't think it even mentions these types of expensive ventilation systems, and I don't think the government give subsidies for them either. They are also pumping in cold air from either the roof space (which is potentially dirty where all the dust and fiberglass batts are, or it is pumped in from outside. On a cold day, I can feel the cold air coming in from the vents, which is coming from the roof space. So not much different from opening your windows. If you have windows near the floor, heat should stay in the rooms, due to heat rising. But in an old houses, there is a heck of a lot of heat lost anyway, even if it has been retrofitted with insulation. You need thicker walls for really good insulation.

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#827021 28-May-2013 13:46

timmmay: Look at Cleanaire, I think they're in Chch. They do a heat recovery ventilation unit that minimises wasted heat. Their prices and technology were good when I last looked, and when I get around to replacing my cheap old system that's what I'd use.
.

There must be somebody who has tried one of these heat exchanger systems. I'd love to hear how they go compared to a DVS or similar.

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#827022 28-May-2013 13:47

martyyn: We moved last year and are looking at this right now as well.

In our experience the DVS we installed in our previous house was without doubt THE BEST money we have ever spent. We had floor to ceiling windows in the lounge just running with water and within two days it was all gone to never be seen again.

So I find it very hard to believe it when people say PPV systems don't work in NZ climates !

We ended up insulated in the roof, under the house, removed the old woodburner and installed a heat pump but the DVS was faultless.

Why did you remove the woodburner? they are a great way to heat the house, and can be energy efficient if you have a good one, especially if you have a good local source for timber. Heat pumps are expensive to run.

What type of house was it, was it just a basic small timber framed house with a hip or gable roof with a roof space?

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#827042 28-May-2013 14:03

Removing the wood burner is one of the best things I've done to help heat my house. The chimney can't touch the ceiling, which means there's a big hole in the ceiling that heat pours out and cold air pours in. We rarely lit the fire, because it was too much hassle in multiple ways (buying wood, storing wood, carting it inside, the mess, etc) so that room was super cold. Just removing the fire and patching the hole made it warmer, but adding a heat pump made it a really nice room.

If you can get free wood then wood burners are cost effective, otherwise heat pumps are meant to be cheaper to run, according to what I remember from consumer tests.

Plus wood burners cause a lot of pollution, horrible smells that affect hundreds of people in your neighbourhood. I think they should be banned in residential areas.

martyyn

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#827063 28-May-2013 14:21

Why did you remove the woodburner? they are a great way to heat the house, and can be energy efficient if you have a good one, especially if you have a good local source for timber. Heat pumps are expensive to run.

What type of house was it, was it just a basic small timber framed house with a hip or gable roof with a roof space?

It was old, the chimney was 'external' to the house, it was small so wouldn't last through the night, 90% of the heat failed to enter the room, it cost a fortune in wood, I got fed up with starting it in the mornings and finding no-one had replenished the kindling and most importantly it was where I wanted my tv to go ;)

Replacing it with a heatpump was easy.

It was a basic 1960 rectangular, timber framed house. Lots of roof space with all day sun heating the ceiling cavity.

We never needed to turn the DVS off because it was blowing cold air in.

We have the same here. If the sun is out its on the roof. I went up there a couple of weeks ago and lost 10kgs in sweat. I know it wont 'heat' the house but it will be drier than now and therefore easier to heat.

I know all the ideas of leaving windows open all the time, but then you kiss goodbye to what little heat you have. The shape of our current house means the existing woodburner does nothing but heat the lounge.

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#827071 28-May-2013 14:35

1) are there any other alternative ventilation systems that is cheaper than DVS?

2) ... in Dunedin?

3) any ventilation systems that recycles and reconditions rather than PPV? (would it be better?)

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#827087 28-May-2013 14:44

timmmay: Removing the wood burner is one of the best things I've done to help heat my house. The chimney can't touch the ceiling, which means there's a big hole in the ceiling that heat pours out and cold air pours in. We rarely lit the fire, because it was too much hassle in multiple ways (buying wood, storing wood, carting it inside, the mess, etc) so that room was super cold. Just removing the fire and patching the hole made it warmer, but adding a heat pump made it a really nice room.

If you can get free wood then wood burners are cost effective, otherwise heat pumps are meant to be cheaper to run, according to what I remember from consumer tests.

Plus wood burners cause a lot of pollution, horrible smells that affect hundreds of people in your neighbourhood. I think they should be banned in residential areas.

The newer ones are a lot better. Plus if you get one that is installed in the wall, rather than a freestanding one, the flue can be put on the outside of the insulation. I think cars produce more toxic fumes than woodburners, it is all about managing the risk, otherwise most things would be banned, life has many dangerous and toxic things in it.

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#827127 28-May-2013 15:42

jonherries: Thought I would just add, I have been planning a balanced ventilation system to replace our PPV one.

Would people recommend I put the inside air intakes in the bathroom, on the end of the clothes drier and above the oven as these are good sources of humid/hot air (I would have a few others as well).

Presumably those sources (esp. oven and drier) will hammer the filter?

Jon

It would depend in the heat exchange element. Some units use a paper heat exchange cartridge which wont like the humidity from the bathroom.

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#827136 28-May-2013 15:47

joker97: 1) are there any other alternative ventilation systems that is cheaper than DVS?

2) ... in Dunedin?

3) any ventilation systems that recycles and reconditions rather than PPV? (would it be better?)

Re 1. It is just a fan that sucks in air from your roof and pushes it out vents in the ceiling.

If you had an electrician put in a powerpoint a DIY install is definitely an option.

The balanced version (point 3) is more efficient as you don't need to reheat the fresh air. Similarly though, a DIY option is definitely possible, but it costs more to install.

Cheapest solution is more insulation and open the windows regularly.

Jon

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#827150 28-May-2013 16:05

mattwnz: I think cars produce more toxic fumes than woodburners,

Hmm...

From Victoria University: Wood burning fires a winter health hazard

"Travis didn’t expect his research results to show that, particularly in Auckland, wood burning fires contributed more particle pollution than vehicle emissions in the winter months.

'That was a surprise, especially because most people think road transport is the leading cause of air pollution.' "

timmmay

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#827168 28-May-2013 16:24

joker97: 1) are there any other alternative ventilation systems that is cheaper than DVS?

2) ... in Dunedin?

3) any ventilation systems that recycles and reconditions rather than PPV? (would it be better?)

You could dehumidify and warm, but that won't bring new oxygen in.

DVS is probably one of the most expensive. Just search for options, like Cleanaire I suggested.

mattwnz: The newer ones are a lot better. Plus if you get one that is installed in the wall, rather than a freestanding one, the flue can be put on the outside of the insulation. I think cars produce more toxic fumes than woodburners, it is all about managing the risk, otherwise most things would be banned, life has many dangerous and toxic things in it.

I live near a motorway and I walk a lot. One wood burner seems to make it a lot more difficult to breathe than all the cars on the motorway.

jonherries

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#827251 28-May-2013 19:11

TinyTim:
mattwnz: I think cars produce more toxic fumes than woodburners,

Hmm...

From Victoria University: Wood burning fires a winter health hazard

"Travis didn’t expect his research results to show that, particularly in Auckland, wood burning fires contributed more particle pollution than vehicle emissions in the winter months.

'That was a surprise, especially because most people think road transport is the leading cause of air pollution.' "

Travis is a good friend of mine I am sure he will be pleased that someone has read his PHD research or at least the news about it!

Jon

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