Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 
Fred99
13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018


  #1254868 10-Mar-2015 18:54
Send private message

mattwnz:
KennyM: I would never nail a deck down, ive seen far to many that have pulled up.
However i think there is some proper decking nails that have barbs that are supposed to stop them pulling out once installed. (think fish hook)

I used 10 x 65 Stainless screw when I did our deck last year, I predrilled but didnt countersink, we only have pine and just drove the screw in until they were in far enough.
I could do that, but my partner couldnt push hard enough to do it (would strip head)

I would recommend a drill bit with the countersunk bit on it already, do it in 1 motion.

That kreg hidden fixing looks good, I would check tho that 140mm isnt too wide to only have a screws right on the edges.


The length of the nails do make a big diffference, as does skew nailing. Galvanising does create a lot of friction, but you can also get grooved ones with larger heads. My main reason for not using screws is cost, as if you have got a large deck like I have, it would cost a substantial amount compared to nails. The bigger problem with decks is deterioration and them getting slippery. Don't ever put pots on decks, as they cause big problems.


IIRC, cost for the decking screws I used was less than 10% of the price of the decking timber.  (about $10k for timber, $800 or so for 316 SS screws)
Don't scrimp.
I wouldn't use nails - ring shank SS or whatever.  If you've ever tried to remove ring shank or twist shank nails, you'd realise why I hate them with a vengeance.  20 years ago, the price of SS or even galv screws would kill you.  Not any more.  Best thing that ever happened - affordable screw fasteners of various kinds, tek screws, roofing, etc etc, with terrific battery impact drivers these days.



mdf

mdf

3566 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1519

Trusted

  #1254871 10-Mar-2015 19:00
Send private message

Fred99: 
I wouldn't use nails - ring shank SS or whatever.  If you've ever tried to remove ring shank or twist shank nails, you'd realise why I hate them with a vengeance.  20 years ago, the price of SS or even galv screws would kill you.  Not any more.  Best thing that ever happened - affordable screw fasteners of various kinds, tek screws, roofing, etc etc, with terrific battery impact drivers these days.


Amen. The old deck I pulled up had the annular grooved nails. Naughty words were used throughout the process. At one point I even rigged up a two tonne trolley jack to try and make life a bit easier. The joists pulled out of the bearers before the decking pulled out of the joists. Probably a reasonably good sign for the longevity of the nails though.

mattwnz
20515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4795


  #1255074 11-Mar-2015 01:06
Send private message

Fred99:
mattwnz:
KennyM: I would never nail a deck down, ive seen far to many that have pulled up.
However i think there is some proper decking nails that have barbs that are supposed to stop them pulling out once installed. (think fish hook)

I used 10 x 65 Stainless screw when I did our deck last year, I predrilled but didnt countersink, we only have pine and just drove the screw in until they were in far enough.
I could do that, but my partner couldnt push hard enough to do it (would strip head)

I would recommend a drill bit with the countersunk bit on it already, do it in 1 motion.

That kreg hidden fixing looks good, I would check tho that 140mm isnt too wide to only have a screws right on the edges.


The length of the nails do make a big diffference, as does skew nailing. Galvanising does create a lot of friction, but you can also get grooved ones with larger heads. My main reason for not using screws is cost, as if you have got a large deck like I have, it would cost a substantial amount compared to nails. The bigger problem with decks is deterioration and them getting slippery. Don't ever put pots on decks, as they cause big problems.


IIRC, cost for the decking screws I used was less than 10% of the price of the decking timber.  (about $10k for timber, $800 or so for 316 SS screws)
Don't scrimp.
I wouldn't use nails - ring shank SS or whatever.  If you've ever tried to remove ring shank or twist shank nails, you'd realise why I hate them with a vengeance.  20 years ago, the price of SS or even galv screws would kill you.  Not any more.  Best thing that ever happened - affordable screw fasteners of various kinds, tek screws, roofing, etc etc, with terrific battery impact drivers these days.


That must be a huge deck. I thought mine was big at about 180sqm. The timber cost $4-5k, although that was just the topping timber as the frame was existing. Nails all up cost about $300, but it is nailed at 400mm centres. I think there are about 70kgs of nails! Over 4 buckets of 15kg nails. If it was done in screws it woul dhave been in the thousands for the screws.



Fred99
13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018


  #1255098 11-Mar-2015 08:19
Send private message

My bad - the total timber cost was about $10k, decking about 1/2 that.   Gluelam posts were quite expensive.  Other SS hardware also expensive.  By the time it all added up, including cost of consents, design, inspection etc, saving money on fasteners was neither here nor there.

mattyb
254 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 19


  #1255099 11-Mar-2015 08:30
Send private message
Disrespective
1934 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 146


  #1255104 11-Mar-2015 08:50
Send private message

My 2c.

I'd use square head screws at least twice the length of the thickness of the decking. I'd probably use stainless screws, too.

Why?

With screws you can remove boards if you need to without (probably) ruining the neighbouring boards. Stainless because I don't like the idea of them corroding at all and I live near the ocean. Square heads are just so much nicer to put in when you're doing hundreds/thousands of them.

I've used the coated screws and they do go in really nice though.

 
 
 

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).
Bung
6733 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2926

Subscriber

  #1255138 11-Mar-2015 09:45
Send private message

mattwnz: That must be a huge deck. I thought mine was big at about 180sqm. The timber cost $4-5k, although that was just the topping timber as the frame was existing. Nails all up cost about $300, but it is nailed at 400mm centres. I think there are about 70kgs of nails! Over 4 buckets of 15kg nails. If it was done in screws it woul dhave been in the thousands for the screws.


What were the nails? For a relatively small quantity (300) I found that SS screws and SS decking nails weren't that different in price. Maybe quantity discount might kick in but not for me.

KennyM
221 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 10


  #1257117 12-Mar-2015 13:35
Send private message

My deck was about 30square meters + stairs. used about 3500 screws I think from memory. I paid about $400 for screws from memory (joist hangers and nail plates on top of that)

I could see if I could find the old reciepts, but I think they got thrown out a couple months ago in a clean up

mattwnz
20515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4795


  #1257148 12-Mar-2015 13:43
Send private message

Disrespective: My 2c.

I'd use square head screws at least twice the length of the thickness of the decking. I'd probably use stainless screws, too.

Why?

With screws you can remove boards if you need to without (probably) ruining the neighbouring boards. Stainless because I don't like the idea of them corroding at all and I live near the ocean. Square heads are just so much nicer to put in when you're doing hundreds/thousands of them.

I've used the coated screws and they do go in really nice though.


I did previously use screws for part of the deck, where I needed to remove boards for inspection points. I believe they were stainless, but the timber treatment still corroded them, so they were impossible to remove without stripping the head. But this was after 10 + years. To remove boards, I use a multitool with a carbide saw fitting , between the board and the joist, which allows you to remove the board withe nail or screw still in place. Nails in this case are easier to remove, as you just use a punch for the other side of the board.

mdf

mdf

3566 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1519

Trusted

  #1257449 12-Mar-2015 20:21
Send private message

Does anyone know of an Australian screw supplier that ships to New Zealand?

I've read some some more reviews of both Spax and GRK Fasteners and think that the narrow decking screws are the way to go for this project. The products seem similar in concept, GRK is American, Spax is German. Amazon will ship GRK to New Zealand, but it's nearly half again for shipping. I'll pay this if I have to to get what I want (and it's still cheaper than some options).

Just wondering if anyone knows of a decent Australian screw supplier that might ship for somewhat less, even if the upfront cost for the screws is higher. Google hasn't turned up anything obvious that actually stocks what I want.

BTW - Spax's youtube videos are awesome - Words can't describe Konny "Schraubenkunde", the cowboy hat wearing, rocking chair sitting, tassled jacket toting spokesperson. I also like the no-speaky demonstration videos with overt finger wagging for no and even more overt thumbs up for yes.

Niel
3267 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 80

Trusted

  #1257456 12-Mar-2015 20:31
Send private message

Have you tried Anzor?  They sell virtually everything including decking screw systems.  And they sell direct to the public.




You can never have enough Volvos!


1 | 2 
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic








Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.