AAAARRRGH! Damn Neighbors noisey heatpump!

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#1331744 25-Jun-2015 21:01

raytaylor:This makes the decibel rating harder to use as an assessment tool.

Our council uses Db rating too, which is meaningless for low freq noise. Can be really annoying but the council may ignore because it is under their limit.

New Zealand have pretty poor noise control regulations as we recently found out. Took us 5 months to get the neighbours friday night parties stopped.

Part of our problem was that people can make as much 'vocal' noise as they like... including screaming, shouting, drinking games, and profanities into all hours of the night .... as long as they don't play music they can get away with it.

The RMA says people noise is not permitted, but there is not any enforcement action specified for 'people' noise. You can take away a stereo but you can't take away a person as such. Although, I suspect our council were just useless and didn't really have a clue.

Eventually our neighbours started playing music too, and we got an abatement notice slammed on them. After that they moved out and no more parties or fireworks woohoo.

As for the heat pump issue, I'd just call the council and ask to speak to their noise control manager and they can assist with info. You will not be the first.

mattwnz

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#1331790 25-Jun-2015 22:37

Unfortunately councils in this type of situation aren't much help. They will ask you if you have contacted the neighbour. As soon as the neighbour knows you have contacted the council with a complaint, then you can say goodbye to friendly neighbourhood relations with that neighbour. Also it is unlikely to exceed the minimum noise levels of the district plan, and most councils district plans are out of date and refer to old NZ standards which have since been updated. Our local council refers to standards from the 60's even though NZ Standards have since updated them. Our neighbours is also have a noisy heatpump outside compressor, but they won't do anything about it. I think it is fairly common.

gzt

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#1331823 26-Jun-2015 00:33

There will be warranty on the installation also.

P.s. start by saying hello ; ).

mattwnz

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#1331828 26-Jun-2015 00:51

surfisup1000:
The RMA says people noise is not permitted, but there is not any enforcement action specified for 'people' noise. You can take away a stereo but you can't take away a person as such. Although, I suspect our council were just useless and didn't really have a clue.

The RMA is so vague, but I believe it overrides councils own district plans. I believe the RMA says something along the lines of that people have the right to enjoy peace and quiet on their property, but how is that actually enforced if people believe their rights are being abused by another party.

surfisup1000

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#1331829 26-Jun-2015 02:42

mattwnz:
surfisup1000:
The RMA says people noise is not permitted, but there is not any enforcement action specified for 'people' noise. You can take away a stereo but you can't take away a person as such. Although, I suspect our council were just useless and didn't really have a clue.

The RMA is so vague, but I believe it overrides councils own district plans. I believe the RMA says something along the lines of that people have the right to enjoy peace and quiet on their property, but how is that actually enforced if people believe their rights are being abused by another party.

I've been through the wording very carefully -- and, to me it seems contradictory and open to interpretation in some parts -- especially with respect to people noise.

eg, from the RMA itself...

In this Act, the term excessive noise means any noise that is under human control and of such a nature as to unreasonably interfere with the peace, comfort, and convenience of any person
Without limiting subsection (1), excessive noise—
(b)may include noise emitted by—
(i)a musical instrument; or
(iv)a person or group of persons; ******

So, my neighbours are guilty under (iv). (20 or 30 people playing drinking games, yelling, swearing every friday until midnight).

But, enforcement in the rma is written incompetently (by highly paid lawyers too).....

Any enforcement officer, or any constable acting upon the request of an enforcement officer, who—
(a)has received a complaint that excessive noise is being emitted from any place; and
(b)upon investigation of the complaint, is of the opinion that the noise is excessive,—
may direct the occupier of the place from which the sound is being emitted, or any other person who appears to be responsible for causing the excessive noise, to immediately reduce the noise to a reasonable level

So, they can 'direct' the people to stop shouting and screaming and quit their drinking which means nothing really because they are so drunk they don't give a toss.

Then, when the people fail to comply then this section applies....

Compliance with an excessive noise direction
(1)Every person who is given a direction under section 327 shall immediately comply with the direction.
(3)If a person against whom an excessive noise direction is made fails to comply immediately with the notice, an enforcement officer (accompanied by a constable), or a constable may enter the place without further notice and—
(a)seize and remove from the place; or
(b)render inoperable by the removal of any part from; or
(c)lock or seal so as to make unusable—
any instrument, appliance, vehicle, aircraft, train, or machine that is producing or contributing to the excessive noise.

ie, they cannot actually stop people shouting or screaming . They can take a stereo or some physical equipment that is emitting noise, but they can't force party goers to leave the premises.

This is really badly written. They can direct people to stop making noise but they cannot force them to stop when they do not comply.

Fortunately our neighbours started firing up the stereo after a few months and we got them to stop that way. But honestly the stereo noise was minor compared to the drunken screaming and shouting.

Our council noise control said they would not investigate 'people' noise events. Only if there is music.

I did read this recently though...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/69658404/kapa-haka-practice-sparks-noise-control-callout

"School board chairman Jason Ake said the Recon Security officer told them their guitars would be confiscated if they did not quieten down."
I said, 'What would happen if we carried on practising after that?' and his response was, 'I'll get the police involved and get you escorted off the premises.'

They are perfectly entitled under the RMa to make as much 'vocal' noise as they like , as long as they are not using the guitars. I reckon wgtn council are breaking the law in getting the police to escort them off the premises.

After all , we complained to our council for months and they would do nothing....this haka group does one practice and the police are willing to remove them.

Such inconsistencies!!!

scuwp

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#1331852 26-Jun-2015 07:50

Well that escalated quickly. Lets get parliament right on it as matter of the highest priority!

RMA to deal with a faulty fan? Please...

This...is where the process should start, and will most likely end.

gzt: start by saying hello ; ).

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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andrew027

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#1331871 26-Jun-2015 08:49

As others have said, the first step is to approach them about it in a friendly manner. As you're new to the neighbourhood, perhaps invite them over for a meet and greet, which has the added bonus of them experiencing the fan from your perspective. If it's that bad at your house, surely it's pretty bad at theirs too - perhaps they already know and are currently locked in a battle between the manufacturer and the installer over whose fault it is.

Failing any reasonable solution, murdering your neighbour is not the answer - it won't make the fan any quieter. I wouldn't go any further than, say, sneaking over the fence in the middle of the night to sabotage the unit so it has to be replaced...

bfginger

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#1332100 26-Jun-2015 13:51

70% of people run their heat pumps with the thermostat set to maximum so maybe it's always working at 100% when it's turned on, like a compressor?

DizzyD

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#1332117 26-Jun-2015 14:14

floydie:He's a total tightwad cheapskate so dunno how this will play out....

Something tells me its not going to play out very well.
Maybe try lose the attitude first, go over and have a chat about the heat pump. Phoning noise control or leaving notes in his letter box is not really the polite way of handling something like this.

bfginger

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#1417391 30-Oct-2015 22:28

There are two different dB measurements provided for heat pump noise, the sound pressure level and the sound power level. I don't know what the difference between the two of them is but don't confuse the two as the power level number is higher.

The external unit for most new heat pumps can be installed so far away from the internal unit there is flexibility for placing it in a place where noise isn't a problem. It is negligent of an installer to fail to tell a client about potential sound problems and just install in an inappropriate location. Having a heat pump reinstalled to a better location is a costly correction.

Does anyone have any good suggestions for sound barriers to stop the roar from a heat pump?

Batman

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#1417440 31-Oct-2015 00:04

Oh dear i can't see what solution can be had. If neighbours have a heater they want to use they will want to use it!

How to tell someone hey you have a heater there, umm, please don't use it. !!!

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raytaylor

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#1417606 31-Oct-2015 11:28

bfginger:

The external unit for most new heat pumps can be installed so far away from the internal unit there is flexibility for placing it in a place where noise isn't a problem. It is negligent of an installer to fail to tell a client about potential sound problems and just install in an inappropriate location. Having a heat pump reinstalled to a better location is a costly correction.

I had a second heat pump installed in Janurary. The installer was the most difficult tradesman I have ever had at my house.
Its in a bedroom, and a back-to-back install would have had the ODU right outside my flatmates bedroom window (noise while sleeping)

The installer who subcontracted to harvey norman was coming up with every excuse he could invent to convince me to let him to a back-to-back install.
He tried really hard to lower the amount of work he had to do - and I could understand, it was a super hot day in the middle of summer.

But I can imagine Average Jo giving into a lazy installer and just letting them do a back-to-back.
The ducting costs them quite a lot and even though I offered to pay for any extra materials he had to use, he was still being stubborn.
I ended up getting my cellphone out of my pocket during the argument and calling the local harvey norman and as I asked to have another installer sent out, he suddenly changed his mind about what could and couldnt be done.

Ray Taylor

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