Who gets a building permit, homeowner or builder?

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Benoire

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#1395990 28-Sep-2015 18:48

mattwnz:
Benoire:
DizzyD: What has become of this world??

I cannot for the life of me believe that council consent is required to tile a shower.
This is council money grabbing at its finest.

I'm to correct this, it is not the Council's that set this requirement, it is a consequence of the building act and code changes after the leaky home issues and is a central government matter. I know building inspectors and processing officers who would rather not deal with the more mundane aspects of home renovation but concentrate on the big ticket items that can cause trouble.

I believe there are likely to be changes to the building act so more mundane things won't need a building consent, where a builder can self certify, and then there will be some form of central NZ insurance policy will take liability away from councils. That said, leaking tiled showers that aren't done properly can be quite a big issue, as leaking can get into the framing etc and rot it , similar to the effects of a leaky building.

Indeed, if there is anything I have learnt from my experience as a civil engineer is that water ingress is one of the most important aspects to control, can ruin an entire environment silently and without anyone knowing for years until wham, it all falls to pieces around you!

mattwnz

20147 posts

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#1395991 28-Sep-2015 18:49

richms: Because people buy houses which then leak and they cry to the council because they bought a house that leaked and then the council has to pay them because some absurd reasons.

It's the culture to blame someone else. A quality independent inspection during construction, or after it, if buying an existing property, should have picked up potential issues.

richms

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#1395993 28-Sep-2015 18:52

mattwnz:
richms: Because people buy houses which then leak and they cry to the council because they bought a house that leaked and then the council has to pay them because some absurd reasons.

It's the culture to blame someone else. A quality independent inspection during construction, or after it, if buying an existing property, should have picked up potential issues.

Or accepting that if you are risk averse that property ownership is probably not ideal for you and remain renting where someone else is taking the risks.

I want to own a house, I dont want to be responsible for it is a particually strange thing. Mind you, people buy used cars and expect dealers to sort out all sorts of crap ages after they have bought them too.

Richard rich.ms

mattwnz

20147 posts

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#1395994 28-Sep-2015 18:52

Benoire:
mattwnz:
Benoire:
DizzyD: What has become of this world??

I cannot for the life of me believe that council consent is required to tile a shower.
This is council money grabbing at its finest.

I'm to correct this, it is not the Council's that set this requirement, it is a consequence of the building act and code changes after the leaky home issues and is a central government matter. I know building inspectors and processing officers who would rather not deal with the more mundane aspects of home renovation but concentrate on the big ticket items that can cause trouble.

I believe there are likely to be changes to the building act so more mundane things won't need a building consent, where a builder can self certify, and then there will be some form of central NZ insurance policy will take liability away from councils. That said, leaking tiled showers that aren't done properly can be quite a big issue, as leaking can get into the framing etc and rot it , similar to the effects of a leaky building.

Indeed, if there is anything I have learnt from my experience as a civil engineer is that water ingress is one of the most important aspects to control, can ruin an entire environment silently and without anyone knowing for years until wham, it all falls to pieces around you!

Tell me about it, and it isn't just water coming in from the exterior. That leaky black plumbing is one that has cost NZ millions, and it is a silent problem that not too many people talk about. If buying an 70-90's house , it is one of the main items people should check. Luckily most real estate agents now require sellers disclose it.

mattwnz

20147 posts

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#1395997 28-Sep-2015 18:55

richms:
mattwnz:
richms: Because people buy houses which then leak and they cry to the council because they bought a house that leaked and then the council has to pay them because some absurd reasons.

It's the culture to blame someone else. A quality independent inspection during construction, or after it, if buying an existing property, should have picked up potential issues.

Or accepting that if you are risk averse that property ownership is probably not ideal for you and remain renting where someone else is taking the risks.

I want to own a house, I dont want to be responsible for it is a particually strange thing. Mind you, people buy used cars and expect dealers to sort out all sorts of crap ages after they have bought them too.

That's why you employ professionals to check, if you don't have the knowledge to check yourself, and most tend to have some form of insurance. There have always been building inspectors, even before the whole leaky building crisis. They just weren't used as much today, as they used to be. But it is not regulated and anyone can become a building inspector. So you now even get some real estate peopel setting up their own ones.

richms

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#1395999 28-Sep-2015 18:56

Ive got that leaky black crap under the driveway here. 3rd join in it just done. Since next door sold I am not going to put cash into thrusting new pipe incase they subdivide and it has to get done anyway, will get in on it when (if) that happens.

Richard rich.ms

Aredwood

3885 posts

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#1396219 28-Sep-2015 23:51

Council inspections are a waste of time. As the inspectors are normally long retired building inspectors who have done a 3 week course on how to inspect plumbing. Meaning they hardly know anything. I had an argument with one over installing a sewage pump. The way he wanted it done would have caused a food graded retail shop to get flooded with raw sewage if the pump were to fail. They would only tell me verbally why the job failed. I told them to write down why the job failed and how they want me to fix it on council letterhead. So that when the flood happens I can refer the insurance companies to the council. They passed the job after that. And approx 4 years or so later they tried to retrospectively fail it. Even though the code compliance certificate had been issued as soon as the job was finished. The owner told them where to go.

All they would do if you did get a consent is waste your time with pointless extras. Get producer statements off all the trades to pass as much liability to them as possible. Miss any really important defects that may be present on the job.

Just get producer statements and proof of insurance from the tradies yourself. And check that they are actually licensed. As in to 10+ years I have been doing Plumbing and Gasfitting. I have only ever had 1 person ask to see my licence who is not a council inspector. And that was a tenant in a run down rental property. So any unlicensed ones can easily get away with it because no one checks.

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mattwnz

20147 posts

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#1396223 29-Sep-2015 00:01

richms: Ive got that leaky black crap under the driveway here. 3rd join in it just done. Since next door sold I am not going to put cash into thrusting new pipe incase they subdivide and it has to get done anyway, will get in on it when (if) that happens.

Anyone who has that black crap should just get the plumbers into replace it all as soon as possible. It will eventually fail. Usually gets pin pricks, but also splits, and the joints also go. There was a bad batch of copper stuff some time ago too that had a similar pin prick problem. I believe pipes have a durability period of no less that 15 years under the building code, which is nowhere near enough IMO. Maybe the government thinks everone replaces their bathooms and kithcens every 10 year. I think it should be no less than 25 years, considering pipes are not usually that accessible.

mattwnz

20147 posts

Uber Geek

#1396224 29-Sep-2015 00:03

Aredwood: Council inspections are a waste of time. As the inspectors are normally long retired building inspectors who have done a 3 week course on how to inspect plumbing. Meaning they hardly know anything. I had an argument with one over installing a sewage pump. The way he wanted it done would have caused a food graded retail shop to get flooded with raw sewage if the pump were to fail. They would only tell me verbally why the job failed. I told them to write down why the job failed and how they want me to fix it on council letterhead. So that when the flood happens I can refer the insurance companies to the council. They passed the job after that. And approx 4 years or so later they tried to retrospectively fail it. Even though the code compliance certificate had been issued as soon as the job was finished. The owner told them where to go.

All they would do if you did get a consent is waste your time with pointless extras. Get producer statements off all the trades to pass as much liability to them as possible. Miss any really important defects that may be present on the job.

Just get producer statements and proof of insurance from the tradies yourself. And check that they are actually licensed. As in to 10+ years I have been doing Plumbing and Gasfitting. I have only ever had 1 person ask to see my licence who is not a council inspector. And that was a tenant in a run down rental property. So any unlicensed ones can easily get away with it because no one checks.

I agree about council inspectors. They also hate being questioned about whether they picked up a certain issue. My main issue is that they are basically just following checklists, but some of the councils checklists differ from others, in that some will check for certain things, while others don't. There doesn't appear to be any standard they are working to.

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