Replacing a gas hot water cylinder - infinity versus cylinder versus electric cylinder?

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Replacing a gas hot water cylinder - infinity versus cylinder versus electric cylinder?

1 | 2 | 3

3512 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1646686 6-Oct-2016 14:56

Geese: The new bosch units that came out just last month called optiflow, can be controlled from your mobile phone via Bluetooth. Price was almost same as all the other brand 26l units. You can monitor gas usage i presume like power in powershop app. Saves paying extra for and installation of controller/s.

Cool! Only issue with the adjustment at tap thing is I don't take my phone into the shower with me! Finally a justification for IP67 phones.

Not sure about the bluetooth though. What do you do if you're not in bluetooth range of the unit?

jonathan18

7413 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1646716 6-Oct-2016 15:21

mdf:

Geese: The new bosch units that came out just last month called optiflow, can be controlled from your mobile phone via Bluetooth. Price was almost same as all the other brand 26l units. You can monitor gas usage i presume like power in powershop app. Saves paying extra for and installation of controller/s.

Cool! Only issue with the adjustment at tap thing is I don't take my phone into the shower with me! Finally a justification for IP67 phones.

Not sure about the bluetooth though. What do you do if you're not in bluetooth range of the unit?

Just because I never can resist investigating the lure of technology being attached to such a prosaic product (and, to be honest, it's damn fine looking for a water heater!), I gave the local Bosch distributor a call. He said, yep he could give me a price but he'd recommend avoiding them, as there's a QC issue at the moment: of the 10 they've sold, most (I think he said 90%, so I assume 9) have been returned as faulty. His advice was to stick with the Rinnai as it's a well-proven product with few problems.

There's that matter dealt with for me; @Geese I hope you remain in the 10% minority and your unit remains fault-free.

davidcole

6029 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1646724 6-Oct-2016 15:34

mdf:

Geese: The new bosch units that came out just last month called optiflow, can be controlled from your mobile phone via Bluetooth. Price was almost same as all the other brand 26l units. You can monitor gas usage i presume like power in powershop app. Saves paying extra for and installation of controller/s.

Cool! Only issue with the adjustment at tap thing is I don't take my phone into the shower with me! Finally a justification for IP67 phones.

Not sure about the bluetooth though. What do you do if you're not in bluetooth range of the unit?

It only takes 1 or 2 showers to know what temp you want. I don't think I've ever had to adjust once in the shower after that.

Previously known as psycik

Home Assistant: Gigabyte AMD A8 Brix, Home Assistant with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Shelly Humidity and Temperature sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4 4k, ATV4, HDHomeRun Dual
Server Host Plex Server 3x3TB, 4x4TB using MergerFS, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Proxmox Server with 1xW10, 2xUbuntu 22.04 LTS, Backblaze Backups, usenetprime.com fastmail.com Sharesies Trakt.TV Sharesight

mdf

3512 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1646736 6-Oct-2016 16:10

davidcole:

mdf:

Geese: The new bosch units that came out just last month called optiflow, can be controlled from your mobile phone via Bluetooth. Price was almost same as all the other brand 26l units. You can monitor gas usage i presume like power in powershop app. Saves paying extra for and installation of controller/s.

Cool! Only issue with the adjustment at tap thing is I don't take my phone into the shower with me! Finally a justification for IP67 phones.

Not sure about the bluetooth though. What do you do if you're not in bluetooth range of the unit?

It only takes 1 or 2 showers to know what temp you want. I don't think I've ever had to adjust once in the shower after that.

I change ours daily. Mrs MDF and I like the same temperature, but the kids like it cooler. Then change it back to kitchen temp once we're done.

davidcole

6029 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1646749 6-Oct-2016 16:23

mdf:
davidcole:

mdf:

Geese: The new bosch units that came out just last month called optiflow, can be controlled from your mobile phone via Bluetooth. Price was almost same as all the other brand 26l units. You can monitor gas usage i presume like power in powershop app. Saves paying extra for and installation of controller/s.

Cool! Only issue with the adjustment at tap thing is I don't take my phone into the shower with me! Finally a justification for IP67 phones.

Not sure about the bluetooth though. What do you do if you're not in bluetooth range of the unit?

It only takes 1 or 2 showers to know what temp you want. I don't think I've ever had to adjust once in the shower after that.

I change ours daily. Mrs MDF and I like the same temperature, but the kids like it cooler. Then change it back to kitchen temp once we're done.

Yes, but you're not adjusting it while in there or varying the te,oerature yiu normally take your shower at. You set it upon entering.

Not sure I see the point of wifi controlled. I guess cheaper than running wires and buys Ng controllers I guess.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#1646755 6-Oct-2016 16:43

mdf:

I change ours daily. Mrs MDF and I like the same temperature, but the kids like it cooler. Then change it back to kitchen temp once we're done.

In the "Good Old Days" TM that was what the thing called the shower/bath mixer was used for..... :)

CYaBro

4582 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1646782 6-Oct-2016 16:56

Camden:

We had a 260sqm house with four people and an electric 270L water cylinder. Wife always complaining that the water was too cold for a hot bath at night.We ran the cylinder on night rate power. We extended the house by another 100sqm to 360sqm so took out the cylinder and replaced it with a Rinnai Infinity XR26ia Gas unit. This only heats the water when you turn the tap on with no storage. This unit has worked very well over the last five years. The water pressure drops just slightly if two people are useing two showers at once,but not enough to cause any detrament to having a good shower.

In Christchurch we don't have reticulated gas so have to run it on LPG cylinders. Four showers, sometimes five or six, one or two loads of washing on warm setting,one load in the twin drawer dishwasher per day and say three to four baths per week, we go through two tanks per month.

That's $215 per month plus about $100 per year to hire the cylinders. I think from memory that the unit cost about $3500 to buy including install. we have a walk in roof space storage area so put the unit on some timber brackets mounted to the roof framing.It is flued out though the roof.

One thing about instant hot water over storage system is there now no delemore over turning the cylinder off to save power if you are going on a short holiday then having to wait for ages till the cylinder warms up again on return home.

In our case I did not go too far in comparing the running costs as we wanted good hot water service first and costs came second. The only thing you have to remember is constantly check the flag on the bottles to order replacements which is a bit of a pain.How ever we have only run out twice in five years and we hook up the BBQ bottle till the big ones are filled again.

You go through a lot of gas!

We have a Rinnai 26L unit with 4 controllers.

We go through a tank about every 6-8 weeks.

We use gas for the hob as well.

There are 4 of us as well.

We don't use the bath that often however and having the controllers allows us to set the water temp, rather than heating to the default temp and then cooling again with cold water in the shower.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

robjg63

4096 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#1647156 7-Oct-2016 11:29

Personally would never bother with the controller add-ons - they werent an option anyway in 2002 as far as I know.

We have lever mixer taps everywhere - and we know where to have the lever to get the right temperature - its hardly difficult.

I did always wonder what the lifespan of an on-demand unit is - I heard some people say as little as 5 years (I would certainly be using the CGA if it only lasted that long!) - others reckon around 15 years. Ours has clocked up around 13 years and still seems fine - fingers X'd its got some life left in it.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

Camden

115 posts

Master Geek

#1647334 7-Oct-2016 14:43

CYaBro

That is a third of our usage of gas. That is prompting me to seek further advice on controllers and the savings they could make.Our two young adults seem to spend what seems like half a day in the shower,so I suppose that sucks the gas !

Linuxluver

5828 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

#1647337 7-Oct-2016 14:48

jonathan18:

This morning my wife advised me our gas hot water cylinder's playing up - making weird noises and leaking (well, until the gas and water were turned off).

My thoughts are, even if it is repairable and those repairs are affordable, it's probably time to replace the cylinder as it's old and is full of crud resulting in often brown water (posted here seeking advice on this previously).

So - the main question I have is: do I replace it with another gas hot water cylinder, switch to an infinity-style gas system, or replace it with an electric cylinder?

I'm tempted by the infinity-style system, but have concerns regarding:

* price - are purchase/install costs considerably more than a cylinder? Are they so much more efficient that this cost difference will be paid back over time?

* location - can it be put in the hot water cupboard and flued externally, or does it need to be on the outside wall?

* efficacy - is the hot water they produce adequate for operating two showers at once, say?

* brands/models - any ones in particular that stand out, ideally looking at value for money?

We got a Rinnei (sp?) and it works with gas. A trivial amount of gas. My monthly bill is about $60 whereas hot water via electric used to cost me hundreds / month. You never run out as long as the gas is flowing.

_____________________________________________________________________

I've been on Geekzone over 16 years..... Time flies....

Asmodeus

1015 posts

Uber Geek

#1647373 7-Oct-2016 15:56

FWIW at a previous rented place I had a solar/mains power hot water tank. When the sun wasn't enough to heat it the mains kicked in. Managed to turn the mains off completely for a few months in summer. GAs wasn't an option there though.

CYaBro

4582 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#1647446 7-Oct-2016 18:17

Camden:

CYaBro

That is a third of our usage of gas. That is prompting me to seek further advice on controllers and the savings they could make.Our two young adults seem to spend what seems like half a day in the shower,so I suppose that sucks the gas !

We also have pretty low flow showers and taps, so the amount of water being used is much lower so I guess that helps with the gas usage as well.

We are on tank water, so have a pump, so pressure is never an issue.

The big bathroom controller is great as you can also set how many litres of water you want to use.

Great for filling the bath as you set the temp, set the number of litres, turn on the hot water tap and walk away.

When it reaches the litres you set the water stops flowing automatically, and you hear a voice telling you that it has finished, and to please turn off the hot water tap. :)

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

logo

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#1647452 7-Oct-2016 18:52

robjg63:

Personally would never bother with the controller add-ons - they werent an option anyway in 2002 as far as I know.

We have lever mixer taps everywhere - and we know where to have the lever to get the right temperature - its hardly difficult.

+1 same here and we only put ours in last year to replace an electric cylinder. Not hard to move a lever to control the temp.

Had gas plumbed up and the only thing we were using it for was the stove - seemed a waste to pay the gas line charges and we were always running out of hot water (two adults, 3 kids).

Thought gas may have been cheaper (no cylinder to keep hot) but hasn't had much effect on the power (gas & electricity bill). I guess the advantage of running out of hot water was that was that, shower over - with continuous flow I notice the showers are longer.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#1647474 7-Oct-2016 20:51

jonathan18:

This morning my wife advised me our gas hot water cylinder's playing up - making weird noises and leaking (well, until the gas and water were turned off).

My thoughts are, even if it is repairable and those repairs are affordable, it's probably time to replace the cylinder as it's old and is full of crud resulting in often brown water (posted here seeking advice on this previously).

So - the main question I have is: do I replace it with another gas hot water cylinder, switch to an infinity-style gas system, or replace it with an electric cylinder?

I'm tempted by the infinity-style system, but have concerns regarding:

* price - are purchase/install costs considerably more than a cylinder? Are they so much more efficient that this cost difference will be paid back over time?

* location - can it be put in the hot water cupboard and flued externally, or does it need to be on the outside wall?

* efficacy - is the hot water they produce adequate for operating two showers at once, say?

* brands/models - any ones in particular that stand out, ideally looking at value for money?

In regards to a cylinder:

* what size would I need for a family of four plus allowing for guests? The current cylinder is only 150l, and TBH we sometimes do run out of hot water if we have guests (we also have boys who will be teenagers in a few years - I'm guessing infinity style supply would be best for this eventuality).

* in regards to switching to electric: I'm thinking this is only worth it if we're going to turn off the reticulated gas. Doing this would only leave gas being used for the kitchen hob, as the two gas heaters get little use since we put in a ducted heat pump. I'm not sure of the feasibility of converting the hob to run off LPG, given it's a minor brand (Indesit) so not sure of ability to get the proper jets, and replacing it's not an option as it's combined with the oven.

Edit: to add that we're with Flick for electricity, so have the potential to build in from the get go appropriate timer controls to make the most of cheaper night rates - if that should be an influence on the decision?

Appreciate any thoughts you may have on the relative merits of the options, and also hopefully some answers to the questions above.

Many thanks

Yes you did the right thing staying with gas but going with an infinity. Assuming the old gas cylinder was an indoor model - their efficiency is poor, but still cheaper than electric. And Flick is only rarely cheaper than piped Natural gas. (wholesale price has to go really low). And considering gas is cheap no matter what time you use it, it's a no brainer staying with gas for hot water.

dipper

62 posts

Master Geek

ID Verified

#1647515 7-Oct-2016 22:50

Hi,

has anybody looked at this system:

http://www.thealternativeenergycompany.co.nz/products/water-heating/retrofit-system.cfm

I know that calling it solar at night is a bad description but it does look interesting. I like the concept.

I have read that the retro fit system is around $4,500 or $6,000 for the built in cylinder with a 10 year warranty.

1 | 2 | 3