Wiring a new home for an electric vehicle.

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Wiring a new home for an electric vehicle.

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#2319549 18-Sep-2019 06:38

mattwnz:

Tracer:

I second @gregmcc's assessment. If there's a socket outlet on that circuit without an RCD it is not compliant.

We told the electrician just to install a normal power point at this stage as we are not ready to install a charging station, plus we won't know what sort of socket type of the charging station we want until we buy an EV which could be years down the track.

Two things:

1) Instructing him to install a normal powerpoint is how you ended up with 16A. He's using it as a placeholder..

2) The home wall charging stations are like giant wall power sockets that are typically compatible with Type 2 charging cables. It would be cheaper for you to have one installed now, rather than later. Home wall chargers in NZ are typically Type 2 which means you just get a desired length of Type 2 to "insert your car's preference" cable. As future standards are released/changed, you'll just buy a different cable that plugs in to a Type 2 charger. An exception to this rule is a company like Tesla who used to have a proprietary charging standard, who instead provide you with both a single or three phase 32A wall charger unit (and 7m fixed cable) alongside a separate slow outlet trickle charger (8A). In that instance you can still use a Type 2 to Type 2 charging cable to charge the Tesla, but most people who own a Tesla switch it out for Tesla's wall charging technology instead (as it opens the charging port door when you click the button on the plug).

When you get your wall charger installed in the future expect to pay around $600-$700 since your wiring will already be done. The RCD will be the biggest cost on top of that. Getting it now just avoids any future compliance / certification / EV disincentives that may get introduced.

Jase2985

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#2319749 18-Sep-2019 13:13

Batman:

so it's ok to install the 32A charger in a 62A house main but not to be used during peak times?

forgot to mention the 62A single phase supply has a fuse ... where is the fuse and if you trip the fuse is it difficult to restore it?

Yes thats what most people in nz have so its fine. and it all depends on how you use your power as to when you charge/use your appliances etc.

fuse is for aerial connections on a pole and not sure for under ground stuff, likely a roadside box. but no you cant restore power, its up to the lines company.

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#2319750 18-Sep-2019 13:18

Jase2985:

Yes thats what most people in nz have so its fine. and it all depends on how you use your power as to when you charge/use your appliances etc.

fuse is for aerial connections on a pole and not sure for under ground stuff, likely a roadside box. but no you cant restore power, its up to the lines company.

Generally in an underground pit. That's how mine is done, anyhow. I've had to deal with North Power in the past due to blown fuse on the line in.

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#2319757 18-Sep-2019 13:25

I hope your alarm has a battery backup now that the off switch is helpfully labelled for the next person to effect burglarious entry to the property....

esawers

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#2319764 18-Sep-2019 13:47

I haven't read the whole thread, but we asked for the same thing.

We installed 6mm cable out to the garage, and the electrician put a 16a circuit breaker on with a normal outside plug.

The circuit breaker can be changed later on when you change the plug.

tripper1000

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#2319771 18-Sep-2019 14:04

All this speculation about weather or not it is RCD protected is hot air because no one can honestly tell from a photo. However you don't need a degree or electrician to tell you weather or not your socket is RCD protected. Save yourself some money and time and simply turn off the RCD(s) then see if the subject socket goes dead. If it stays live, it obviously isn't protected. It's simple wiring, not rocket science!

I wonder if people are also getting confused about EVSE rules - It is mandatory (under European Rules) for EVSE leads to be RCD protected - practically speaking this translates into stand-alone/portable charging leads having RCD's built into them to because many older houses don't have RCD's on the switch boards.

I second what others are saying. A 16 amp CB is no reflection on the wire size (necessarily) but is appropriate for the 3 pin outlet. The wiring may (or may not) be the size you require.

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#2319835 18-Sep-2019 15:11

The modern type of fuse up a pole or in a pod at the front of your house is called an HRC fuse. High Rupture Capacity:

Most typical households have a 63 amp one for general circuits and a second lower capacity one for water heating.

Sounds like people will end up with the type of socket you plug a free standing stove into, in their garages:

I can just imagine all the ignorant people who'll expect their power company to provide enough juice to charge their nice new clean and green electric car at no extra cost or inconvenience to the user.

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#2320120 19-Sep-2019 09:29

gregmcc: This is the typical household supply, And this is the problem with EV charging. a normal EV charger is 32 amps. it's like having another electric stove running overnight.

The power grid in NZ simply does not have enough capacity in the infrastructure for a mass move to EV charging, let alone the power generation capacity.....

That's a rather broad and sweeping statement. The fastest my EV can charge is 16 amps which is typical of vast majority of the NZ EV fleet (JDM Leafs). Additionally I can select any current I like between 6 and 16 amps (admittedly, not everyone has a variable charge lead) - I typically charge 11pm to 7am at 7 amps every 2nd night, so not a radical difference in power consumption to the average kiwi household.

Fixed charge points can be/are configured by the installing electrician to limit the current they supply to the car which enables them to be connected to wiring & in premises where 32 amps is not available/desirable.

Further more in countries that have higher EV uptake than N.Z. and that have older less robust (domestic) electrical infrastructure such as the UK, there are network connect charge points that the power retailer controls remotely/on the fly to modulate grid loading. The goal is a levelling out of max and min demand on the grid benefiting the power companies, and lower bills for the customer.

Infometics, Transpower etc reckon we need to be adding capacity to the grid by 2030 assuming 20% of the fleet is EV LINK so yes upgrades will be required for a mass change to EV but that shouldn't influence your decision when the fleet is currently well under 1% and the Govt isn't making anything other than token efforts to encourage EV uptake.

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#2320185 19-Sep-2019 10:54

gregmcc:

This is the typical household supply, And this is the problem with EV charging. a normal EV charger is 32 amps. it's like having another electric stove running overnight.

The power grid in NZ simply does not have enough capacity in the infrastructure for a mass move to EV charging, let alone the power generation capacity.....

A 32A charger is most definitely not a "normal" EV charger in NZ. The vast majority (probably 80-90%) are using an 8A EVSE, a bunch of people have a 16A EVSE, and very few have 32A wallboxes. While this is likely to change over time for most users an 8A charger works fine.

Power companies are already testing controllable EV chargers to manage load, and apparently have no concerns about the grid being able to handle the switch to EV.

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#2320190 19-Sep-2019 11:12

tripper1000:

Additionally I can select any current I like between 6 and 16 amps (admittedly, not everyone has a variable charge lead)

@tripper1000: not directly on-topic, sorry, but interested to know which model of charge cable you have now for your Leaf? (Noting, like mine, your Ray gave up the ghost.) I haven't come across other models that have the same ability to set the amps so wondered what else is out there. Thanks.

gregmcc

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#2320447 19-Sep-2019 15:21

baplaski:

gregmcc:

This is the typical household supply, And this is the problem with EV charging. a normal EV charger is 32 amps. it's like having another electric stove running overnight.

The power grid in NZ simply does not have enough capacity in the infrastructure for a mass move to EV charging, let alone the power generation capacity.....

A 32A charger is most definitely not a "normal" EV charger in NZ. The vast majority (probably 80-90%) are using an 8A EVSE, a bunch of people have a 16A EVSE, and very few have 32A wallboxes. While this is likely to change over time for most users an 8A charger works fine.

Power companies are already testing controllable EV chargers to manage load, and apparently have no concerns about the grid being able to handle the switch to EV.

do some sums, lets take a 2016 nissan leaf, typical battery is 24kwh.

There isn't enough hours to fully charge this from flat using a 8amp EVSE, that's a 13 hour charge time (assuming no losses) so for lots of people it's not going to work.

If you believe the power companies that they have "no concerns" you are a very trusting person. Working in the electricity industry and specifically the Power supply networks I can tell you that if the upward trend continues and the thirst for electricity to charge cars with increasing battery capacities the point at which the network simply will not be able to cope is rapidly arriving.

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#2320454 19-Sep-2019 15:30

gregmcc:

baplaski:

gregmcc:

This is the typical household supply, And this is the problem with EV charging. a normal EV charger is 32 amps. it's like having another electric stove running overnight.

The power grid in NZ simply does not have enough capacity in the infrastructure for a mass move to EV charging, let alone the power generation capacity.....

A 32A charger is most definitely not a "normal" EV charger in NZ. The vast majority (probably 80-90%) are using an 8A EVSE, a bunch of people have a 16A EVSE, and very few have 32A wallboxes. While this is likely to change over time for most users an 8A charger works fine.

Power companies are already testing controllable EV chargers to manage load, and apparently have no concerns about the grid being able to handle the switch to EV.

do some sums, lets take a 2016 nissan leaf, typical battery is 24kwh.

There isn't enough hours to fully charge this from flat using a 8amp EVSE, that's a 13 hour charge time (assuming no losses) so for lots of people it's not going to work.

If you believe the power companies that they have "no concerns" you are a very trusting person. Working in the electricity industry and specifically the Power supply networks I can tell you that if the upward trend continues and the thirst for electricity to charge cars with increasing battery capacities the point at which the network simply will not be able to cope is rapidly arriving.

How do countries without nuclear power plants do it? I read somewhere someone posted that almost everyone in some countries use electric cars - was is scandanavia or netherlands or something?

jonathan18

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#2320579 19-Sep-2019 17:46

gregmcc:

do some sums, lets take a 2016 nissan leaf, typical battery is 24kwh.

There isn't enough hours to fully charge this from flat using a 8amp EVSE, that's a 13 hour charge time (assuming no losses) so for lots of people it's not going to work.

If you believe the power companies that they have "no concerns" you are a very trusting person. Working in the electricity industry and specifically the Power supply networks I can tell you that if the upward trend continues and the thirst for electricity to charge cars with increasing battery capacities the point at which the network simply will not be able to cope is rapidly arriving.

I accept you've chosen one of the smallest capacity EVs, but even still I think this is over-egged:

* What proportion of users will really be needing to charge from 0 to 100%? Few, to be sure. We need one hour a day at 16A to keep ours pretty much at or around 80% by the end of the charge - that's two hours at 8A.

* Charging for 13 hours: that's from 6pm to 7am - probably do-able for many people, but taking into account the previous point...

* EVs with larger capacity batteries will not have a charging requirement that's proportional to their battery - again, users will generally only need to recharge what they've used that day.

I'm not saying your last para isn't accurate - it's just your generalisations on usage are pretty much worse-case...

Zeon

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#2320585 19-Sep-2019 17:52

gregmcc:

baplaski:

gregmcc:

This is the typical household supply, And this is the problem with EV charging. a normal EV charger is 32 amps. it's like having another electric stove running overnight.

The power grid in NZ simply does not have enough capacity in the infrastructure for a mass move to EV charging, let alone the power generation capacity.....

A 32A charger is most definitely not a "normal" EV charger in NZ. The vast majority (probably 80-90%) are using an 8A EVSE, a bunch of people have a 16A EVSE, and very few have 32A wallboxes. While this is likely to change over time for most users an 8A charger works fine.

Power companies are already testing controllable EV chargers to manage load, and apparently have no concerns about the grid being able to handle the switch to EV.

do some sums, lets take a 2016 nissan leaf, typical battery is 24kwh.

There isn't enough hours to fully charge this from flat using a 8amp EVSE, that's a 13 hour charge time (assuming no losses) so for lots of people it's not going to work.

If you believe the power companies that they have "no concerns" you are a very trusting person. Working in the electricity industry and specifically the Power supply networks I can tell you that if the upward trend continues and the thirst for electricity to charge cars with increasing battery capacities the point at which the network simply will not be able to cope is rapidly arriving.

One of the issues it seems is that lines companies don't have variable pricing as the generators do. So everyone gets home at 18:00 and alongside the cooking appliances etc. there is a sudden jump in demand for the street. The lines companies should be increasing prices during that time to try and flatten demand out. When I was with Flick transmission costs were always statuc but the costs of the actual generator's component fluctuated all throughout the day/night.

Speedtest 2019-10-14

baplaski

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#2320921 20-Sep-2019 09:07

do some sums, lets take a 2016 nissan leaf, typical battery is 24kwh.

There isn't enough hours to fully charge this from flat using a 8amp EVSE, that's a 13 hour charge time (assuming no losses) so for lots of people it's not going to work.

If you believe the power companies that they have "no concerns" you are a very trusting person. Working in the electricity industry and specifically the Power supply networks I can tell you that if the upward trend continues and the thirst for electricity to charge cars with increasing battery capacities the point at which the network simply will not be able to cope is rapidly arriving.

As an owner of a 30KW Nissan leaf, I'm pretty familiar with charging them, and I can tell you the vast majority of owners use a 8A charger. Most users aren't charging from flat overnight, it's a topup. Japanese Leafs only have a 3.6KW charger onboard anyway, so anything more than 16A is pointless. Like I said, this is likely to change over time, but I'd bet a lot of people will be fine with an 8A or 16A charger because while the battery capacity of EVs is going up, daily usage doesn't.

Having re-looked at what I was read about power companies, nope, I was wrong. Electricity companies don't have concerns about about generation capacity, but they do have concerns about the network. Sounds like a use case for controllable home chargers to me (I'm pretty sure Vector are trialling this?).

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