Fridges, freezers and powerboards....

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#2649289 8-Feb-2021 09:14

kiwifidget:

All the computery stuff sits behind UPSes, does this eliminate them from being the cause?

I can see that I will need to do an electrical audit of all appliances and how they connect back to the switchboard.

Fun times 😀

I don't know what you've got connected to your ups, but mine - a standard CS650 that is 10yrs old - draws about 2.88kw/day, 120w an hour or 0.5A. Under heavy load I've seen it go to 300w. You should be ok - the UPS is there to separate your kit from the big bad world and smooth power draw.

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#2649291 8-Feb-2021 09:19

Currently no extension cords, the fridge and freezer directly plug into their own socket on a dual outlet.

The outlet is down low, and the cords are loosely draped on the floor.

On closer inspection, there is not room to put a tap-on in without moving the appliances further out from the wall (making parking even more of a precision exercise).

Also quite a lot of cobwebs back there 😬

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#2649347 8-Feb-2021 09:33

I am hearing that any outlet that also get affected by the RCD trip would be a suitable candidate for setting up the smartphone.

There are probably 3-4 I can pick from then.

The brother-in-law usually keeps an eye on the place when we go away, but only pops in every few days.

If I can get an outage notification then its an easy job to send BIL a message and he can flip the RCD up again.

PS freezers should have a big red light on them that goes out, alerting even the most casual observer that something is amiss.

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Jase2985

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#2649352 8-Feb-2021 10:23

if its popping that regularly try isolating what it could be. can you connect via an extension cord the fridge to freezer to another circuit and see if the issue moves?

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#2649363 8-Feb-2021 10:57

It's not popping regularly, maybe every 2-3 months on average.

But you can bet your bottom dollar it will pop when we are not home!

I only want to detect outages, it's up to Himself to identify the cause, and a rubbish job he is doing of that.

But if I can say , hand on heart, all my stuff is behind a UPS so none of it can be the cause, then he can't blame me.

So yes, UPS stops bad power getting to connected things, but does it prevent bad power going back into the wall?

In the absence of a red light on the freezer, here is a useful tip I read somewhere....maybe here, I don't remember.

Almost fill a mug with water and put it in the freezer.

When frozen, sit a coin on the ice.

If the power went off and stayed off, no doubt the smell would alert you, and the coin would be sitting in a mug of water.

If you return and the coin is still sitting on top of the ice, then your food is safe.

But if the coin is part way down or at the bottom of a mug of ice, then there has been a partial or full thaw and refreeze.

Food may not be safe.

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#2649369 8-Feb-2021 11:07

its not the stuff connected to the UPS, but then that's not to say it isnt the UPS. is it on the same circuit?

kiwifidget:The brother-in-law usually keeps an eye on the place when we go away, but only pops in every few days.

kiwifidget:

It's not popping regularly, maybe every 2-3 months on average.

not sure which one it is

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#2649371 8-Feb-2021 11:17

The BIL pops in every few days if we go away.

The RCD pops every 2-3 months.

And I suspect the UPS is on the same circuit.

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k1w1k1d

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#2649457 8-Feb-2021 14:10

A good start would be to find out exactly which sockets/lights etc are on each circuit from the fuse board.

decibel

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#2650264 9-Feb-2021 12:49

Why are you assuming that the fridge or freezer is the culprit.

Surely it could be anything in the third of the house which looses power.

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#2650289 9-Feb-2021 13:02

@decibel , not sure if your question is directed at me, but I am not assuming the fridge or freezer is the culprit.

Whatever is the culprit, and thats a whole separate discussion, it takes out the fridge and freezer.

From my perspective all I really want to know is when that happens so that steps can be taken as soon as possible to restore power to them.

I've decided to use a smartphone permanently attached to its charger, and an app that alerts when the phone detects no more power coming from the charger.

Apparently there are several apps and I have not decided on one yet. Might try them all to see which works best.

I was wondering if I could plug the smartphone into one of the very same outlets that the fridge and freezer are using, thinking this would reduce the chance of false alerts. But the consensus is its not a good idea to run these appliances off a powerboard etc.

However as others have helped me realise, its usually the whole garage and a couple of other rooms that go out as well, so any outlet in that area should be fit for purpose.

Of primary importance to me is that my whitebait and ice-cream do not defrost.

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#2650292 9-Feb-2021 13:06

kiwifidget:

@decibel , not sure if your question is directed at me, but I am not assuming the fridge or freezer is the culprit.

Agreed but I think some here are assuming that. Good luck and especially with the whitebait.

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Bung

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#2650725 10-Feb-2021 06:27

decibel:
Why are you assuming that the fridge or freezer is the culprit.

Surely it could be anything in the third of the house which looses power.

Yes it could be anything but older fridges and freezers have a history of being the cause. It makes sense to start testing there.

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#2650745 10-Feb-2021 08:30

Bung:
decibel:

Why are you assuming that the fridge or freezer is the culprit.

Surely it could be anything in the third of the house which looses power.

Yes it could be anything but older fridges and freezers have a history of being the cause. It makes sense to start testing there.

Problem being that unless there's a manual override / method to turn the fridge on to defrost mode, it'll probably test okay and look okay when the fridge isn't tripping the RCD. (it only has to leak a very small amount of current to earth for a few milliseconds every few months to cause the assumed semi-random tripping of the RCD) "Some disassembly" may be required to measure if there's leakage to earth from the heater element - and even then it might also need the presence of water from melting ice around the element (or some other component - temp probe, whatever) for enough current to leak to earth to trip the RCD. Someone who knows what they're looking for needs to check or the OP could end up spending more than the old fridge and freezer are worth and still not fix the issue.

Googling the fridge and freezer models numbers and RCD tripping may offer more specific clues as to how and what to check. It's probably well out of scope of DIY diagnosis based on OP's comments on DIY abilities and the fact that it's so intermittent. Usual "rule of thumb" probably applies - if you have to ask how in a forum, then DIY may not be a good idea.

As it is now, could be the fridge, the freezer, the wiring being eaten by a mouse when the cat's away, something incorrectly wired, a cockroach colony or water leak in a flush box, another faulty appliance on the circuits protected by the RCD, or a faulty RCD etc etc. Makes sense to get a sparky in - even if testing/servicing the fridge is beyond what they can do quickly, if everything else tests OK then it's greater assurance (but still no guarantee) that the fridge or freezer is the culprit.

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#2650761 10-Feb-2021 09:11

Fred99: Someone who knows what they're looking for needs to check

Yes of course.

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#2650813 10-Feb-2021 09:30

We do have ants living in our external walls, and the fridge and freezer outlets are on the inside side of such a wall.

I hope its not them as they have proven impossible to get rid of so far. Short of tearing off all internal gib and getting at them directly.

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