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Nety

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#510135 22-Aug-2011 20:26

We just installed double glazed Aluminium inserts into wooden frames. In our case it was a forced move in that the original windows were in rotten in many spots. We went with inserts rather then completeley replacing he windows as we wanted to as much as possible keep the look of the house as it was. We are happy with the results with the first thing we noticed being something unexpected which was how much quiteter it made the house. They were installed towards the end of the cicada season and we were blown away at the the difference. Before you could hear the cicada's very clearly from inside. After they were in you could not hear them at all. Not a thing. Street noise is also massively reduced. For us the existing windows has warped significantly so were letting in a lot of drafts as well which of course are now completely gone.
We replaced thirteen windows ranging from toilet to large lounge windows for $16k installed. We did get a quote for wooden inserts (double glazed) and that was around 35k.

As others have said put in roof insulation first as it has the biggest impact. Even if there is already something there unless it is really good add to it.

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timmmay

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#510141 22-Aug-2011 20:42

The plastic ground sheet made a big difference to damn and smell for me, totally worth doing if your house is on piles. It's not insulation though, of course. Ceiling first, then heat pump and under floor in whatever order you want. If wind comes up through the floor then that comes before heat pump of course.

tdgeek

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#510203 22-Aug-2011 22:38

I've had this done, I will pass on my input.

We have a classic bay window/verandah old style home. Ive had the weatherboards replaced with H4 weatherboard, insulated exterior walls and alu double glazed windows. The ceiling is insulated too. It is so easy to warm, it is so quiet. The windows were $14000 2 years ago with $2000 quoted for install altho my builder did that.

The other issue is aesthetics. Not only is my older home with new windows but it also has had most of the sash ones replaced with larger, more modern sizes (2.7m, 2.3, and 2.0m) reading this you may think its ruined the style, but it hasn't. The windows are while and the builder put wood framing that the windows insert into, so it looks natural. The 4 sash windows that stayed all have while crossbars inside the glazing so it holds the older style. The 3 larger modern windows have a big pane and side panes, the side ones are also crossbarred, so it all looks natural. The crossbar effect wasnt expensive, maybe 40 extra per pane.

I recommend to look at what you can do with wall insulation, thats a biggie. Double glazing is a biggie too.

The $14000 for windows included 4 sashes about 1800mm high, 2.8m french door, 2.2m french door 2.7m window, 2.3m window, 2.0m window, 1.6m bathroom window, and 1 rear door (dunno why I did that.)

You need to assess the cost to get warm and draft free, and the extra to get it smart, and that will replay itself in resale, whereas an out of place update to the windows may harm resale.

[Net: corrected cost of adding crossbar as requested]

tdgeek

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#510204 22-Aug-2011 22:39

Mauricio, can you correct my post above as in

The crossbar effect wasnt expensive, maybe $40 extra per pane.

Nety

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#510241 23-Aug-2011 06:29

tdgeek: Mauricio, can you correct my post above as in

The crossbar effect wasnt expensive, maybe $40 extra per pane.

Done.

KennyM

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#510831 23-Aug-2011 19:51

I work for an Aluminum Joinery company so if you need to know anything ill help where I can.

I work as an installer, so Im not up there with prices/quotes, just the hands on stuff.
Tho if you sent through a couple of window details, I could pass it on so you could get an idea.

Ill point out that I dont know anything about retrofitting timber joinery, only that it can be done (Im talking adding double glazing to existing timber) All my work is replacing timber joinery, ie full replacement or inserts.

Pro's:
Quieter
Insulation (dont forget its colder in summer too!)
More Modern

Con's
Any option is going to cost money.

Things to keep in mind.
I _personally_ would stay away from the 'addon' double glazing...where they just add a second piece of glass / perspex to one side. Tends to be cheaper but ask to see a sample! its ugly. Its just the design of the stuff.
As a GENERAL rule if you alter and need a PERMIT, then it must be double glazed. However swapping like for like can stay single glazed ie, replacing a window that doesnt need the wall/framing altered.
When buying houses, people are now starting to ask if its double glazed. Having it done properly does add value......Its not going to make you rich tho.

The biggest thing I've found is people seem to think double glazing takes the moisture out of the house. it DOESN'T. It simply removes the cold surface for it to settle on. But if theres enough moisture it will still end up on the windows or it will find other things to settle on...and in a house that old it will probably settle on all the untreated timber they used to use back in the days.

What would I do?
If you dont want it for the quietness then:
1: Underfloor.
2: Ceiling.
3: Windows.
Provided the current windows are not drafty or damaged.

Heatpumps/hrv's are good, depending where add that too the list depends how much it costs to run it

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jonb

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#510834 23-Aug-2011 20:02

post deleted - was an uninformed rant..

timmmay

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#510896 23-Aug-2011 22:31

Kenny's right, retrofit double glazing doesn't look awesome. It looks fine, depends how fussy you are. It's about 20% the cost of real double glazing, and maybe 60-80% as effective, so it's great value.

Good point about the moisture too, it's still there, and needs to be flushed out. I have a DVS/HRV type unit that goes on 11-4 each day, which pushes the moist air out. That makes it easier for the heat pump too, heating dry air is much easier than heating air filled with water.

KennyM

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#510915 23-Aug-2011 23:38

Id just like to point out I was refering to the 'addon' retrofitting....The type of double glazing my work does replaces the glass, beading and sash material. the 'addon' one is just a stick on piece.

But thats going off topic : )

mattwnz

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#510916 23-Aug-2011 23:44

timmmay: Kenny's right, retrofit double glazing doesn't look awesome. It looks fine, depends how fussy you are. It's about 20% the cost of real double glazing, and maybe 60-80% as effective, so it's great value.

Good point about the moisture too, it's still there, and needs to be flushed out. I have a DVS/HRV type unit that goes on 11-4 each day, which pushes the moist air out. That makes it easier for the heat pump too, heating dry air is much easier than heating air filled with water.

You can now get really thin double glazing panels that will fit into timber frames, but not sure if it is available in NZ yet. Positive ventilation systems don't work in all situations, but for your bog standard 120 square metre house, they do appear to be effective, at reducing condensation.

timmmay

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#510972 24-Aug-2011 09:20

KennyM: Id just like to point out I was refering to the 'addon' retrofitting....The type of double glazing my work does replaces the glass, beading and sash material. the 'addon' one is just a stick on piece.

But thats going off topic : )

It's not too off topic. So you take out the glass, use the existing frames, and put a proper double glazed panel in there? What would that cost, give or take, for say a 3x2m window?

mattwnz:
timmmay: Kenny's right, retrofit double glazing doesn't look awesome. It looks fine, depends how fussy you are. It's about 20% the cost of real double glazing, and maybe 60-80% as effective, so it's great value.

Good point about the moisture too, it's still there, and needs to be flushed out. I have a DVS/HRV type unit that goes on 11-4 each day, which pushes the moist air out. That makes it easier for the heat pump too, heating dry air is much easier than heating air filled with water.

You can now get really thin double glazing panels that will fit into timber frames, but not sure if it is available in NZ yet. Positive ventilation systems don't work in all situations, but for your bog standard 120 square metre house, they do appear to be effective, at reducing condensation.

Well mine doesn't look awesome, but it's not too bad. It looks like a frame within a frame.

Positive pressure ventilation isn't the solution to all problems like some people say it is, but it does seem to be effective at forcing stale moist air out of a house, and on sunny cool days brings heat from the ceiling cavity down. On sunny days my ceiling cavity is heaps warmer than outside, and in summer you can't use it during the day as it just gets too hot. One downside to them is if you leave them one while heating the house it cools the house down.

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