Quote for Re-Laying Outdoor Tiles

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#1536518 20-Apr-2016 12:41

Sounds like a pretty s*tty set of circumstances. Sounds like you're doing all the right things though.

If you haven't already, you should be taking screen shots/keeping records of all written communications (incl texts) and even jotting down a contemporaneous note of all discussions (doesn't need to be detailed).

I would hazard a guess that the police may well not be interested. However, the Disputes Tribunal is another option, if you can be bothered investing the time and emotional effort.

Another avenue that *may* be available is the National Enforcement Unit of the Companies Office. Persons convicted of certain dishonesty offences (including fraud) aren't allowed to be involved in the management of a company (though being an employee is okay, as is a sole trader/other non-company business). More information is available here.

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#1536612 20-Apr-2016 13:34

mdf:

Sounds like a pretty s*tty set of circumstances. Sounds like you're doing all the right things though.

If you haven't already, you should be taking screen shots/keeping records of all written communications (incl texts) and even jotting down a contemporaneous note of all discussions (doesn't need to be detailed).

I would hazard a guess that the police may well not be interested. However, the Disputes Tribunal is another option, if you can be bothered investing the time and emotional effort.

Another avenue that *may* be available is the National Enforcement Unit of the Companies Office. Persons convicted of certain dishonesty offences (including fraud) aren't allowed to be involved in the management of a company (though being an employee is okay, as is a sole trader/other non-company business). More information is available here.

Well if the guy is up to the same old tricks the police have indicated interest. DT may work, but if he already spent the money, chances of getting it back are slim to non-existent.

Yes, I'll investigate the Companies Office stuff, thanks.

He was onsite for 90 minutes today.

I don't understand why he doesn't just finish the job as fast as he can, earn a legitimate living etc. It's probably 2 x 8 hour days work to complete it. Hopeless!

mattwnz

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#1536649 20-Apr-2016 14:12

I feel for you , it doesn't sound good. This is why I DIY stuff that the homeowner is permitted to do. You can spend more time too getting it exactly right as I am a perfectionist, and you don't have the major awkwardness of disputes, and work not being up to standard etc. Mite 10 and bunnings also have youtube vids and brochures showing how to do much of it.

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#1536653 20-Apr-2016 14:16

mattwnz:

I feel for you , it doesn't sound good. This is why I DIY stuff that the homeowner is permitted to do. You can spend more time too getting it exactly right as I am a perfectionist, and you don't have the major awkwardness of disputes, and work not being up to standard etc. Mite 10 and bunnings also have youtube vids and brochures showing how to do much of it.

Unfortunately, I have neither the time, skills or inclination to try these things for myself.

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#1536722 20-Apr-2016 15:23

If not DIYing, really the only way to choose a tradesperson is word of mouth, and not always going for the cheapest quote. Also if an expensive one will says they will bet the cheapest one, that is a red flag to me.

callisto

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#1552340 13-May-2016 18:32

Recently had the same experience with the same people you've mentioned. Pretty worried that they're preying on older people with no internet access as they only seem to advertise in the local papers. Sucks there's people like that in the world.

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#1613375 17-Aug-2016 18:06

Well what an utterly terrible experience this has been. We still don't have tiles laid and with over 300 texts sent and received, it's been horrific. We have decided to go to small claims, but I am wondering what options I have as :

1) Subsequent Quotes for the work are $2000 more than the price he quoted.

2) We would NOT have done this work knowing the "real" cost was to be $4K (Which seems INSANE to lay 50m2 in my opinion)

3) This idiot has broken a bunch of tiles and the resulting delays which were promised to be a few days at a time for months and months, means our lawn is pretty much destroyed as everything like furniture on the deck had to be moved for them to "work".

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#1613382 17-Aug-2016 18:24

This whole thing totally sucks. You pretty much have to just get out of it now as best you can, there is no winning or good outcome, just the best on you can get from here forward.

If it was me I'd be doing two things.

First notify the contractor that as he has not completed the work in a reasonable period of time you will be engaging another contractor to complete the work and seeking to recover your losses from him. Tell him he is forbidden to enter your property and if he does so he will be served with a trespass order. Then get another contractor to finish the work.

Get some advise as to what you can recover but for what it costs I'd be going down the disputes tribunal route. Keep all you receipts, correspondence etc and do the best you can. If this guy is as shady as he seems at some point it won't be worth it to pursue any further and you'll have to either walk away or invest considerable money in chasing him down.

It a horrendous situation but if you get really bitter about it you'll loose more than just money, which is bad enough.

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#1613388 17-Aug-2016 18:38

I am not sure legally if I go to DT if I can claim more than the value of the actual loss. IE if I had to pay someone to rectify his mess etc...

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#1613397 17-Aug-2016 18:54

https://www.nocowboys.co.nz/businesses/Guys-Landscaping

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11516538

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11256459

http://www.stuff.co.nz/10220029/Fraudster-has-sentence-reduced

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#1613413 17-Aug-2016 19:26

networkn:
I am not sure legally if I go to DT if I can claim more than the value of the actual loss. IE if I had to pay someone to rectify his mess etc...

Your loss is whatever it costs you in addition to the agreed contract price, eg if you agreed on a price of $3000 and your total cost is $5000 to get the agreed work finished then your loss is $2000. In addition you can claim for your time in chasing this guy as a consequential loss.

Whether or not you ever see the money is another story.

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#1613416 17-Aug-2016 19:37

Really feel for you. I've been through the DT process (successfully) but in my case the guy I was dealing was a decent person, we just happened to strongly disagree with each other.

Not sure how much you're out of pocket so far or what your financial position is but you should seriously consider cutting your losses, walking away and starting over. It may not be worth the stress to go though DT, police etc. At this point its highly unlikely you'll get any money back or the job finished. Best you can hope for is to reduce the chance of this happening to someone else.

I always use nocowboys/word of mouth for trades. Of course the guys with a ton of good reviews charge a lot and have very long lead times.

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#1613423 17-Aug-2016 19:46

Sam91:

https://www.nocowboys.co.nz/businesses/Guys-Landscaping

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11516538

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11256459

http://www.stuff.co.nz/10220029/Fraudster-has-sentence-reduced

Yup that's him!

mdf

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#1613430 17-Aug-2016 20:00

networkn:

I am not sure legally if I go to DT if I can claim more than the value of the actual loss. IE if I had to pay someone to rectify his mess etc...

Being very legalistic, yes. Damages for breach of contract are calculated to put you in the position you would have been in had the contract been performed instead of breached (see PLC for example).

In addition, section 32 of the CGA has your back:

Where a service supplied to a consumer fails to comply with a guarantee set out in any of sections 28 to 30, the consumer may,—
(a)where the failure can be remedied,—
(i)require the supplier to remedy it within a reasonable time:
(ii)where a supplier who has been required to remedy a failure refuses or neglects to do so, or does not succeed in doing so within a reasonable time,—
(A)have the failure remedied elsewhere and recover from the supplier all reasonable costs incurred in having the failure remedied; ...

But in practice, I would endorse what @mcraenz and @handle9 said. It will take a whole lot of your time and emotional energy seeing the thing through, and at the end of it you may well get stiffed on the payment even if you win. Peoples' experiences with the Disputes Tribunal are pretty mixed (there has been ongoing efforts at reform for about ten years now). For the sake of a couple of thousand dollars, I know I would be considering my options very carefully.

Another option to consider is complaining to the police and seeing if there is any scope for criminal reparation for fraud.

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#1613435 17-Aug-2016 20:11

mdf:

networkn:

I am not sure legally if I go to DT if I can claim more than the value of the actual loss. IE if I had to pay someone to rectify his mess etc...

Being very legalistic, yes. Damages for breach of contract are calculated to put you in the position you would have been in had the contract been performed instead of breached (see PLC for example).

In addition, section 32 of the CGA has your back:

Where a service supplied to a consumer fails to comply with a guarantee set out in any of sections 28 to 30, the consumer may,—
(a)where the failure can be remedied,—
(i)require the supplier to remedy it within a reasonable time:
(ii)where a supplier who has been required to remedy a failure refuses or neglects to do so, or does not succeed in doing so within a reasonable time,—
(A)have the failure remedied elsewhere and recover from the supplier all reasonable costs incurred in having the failure remedied; ...

But in practice, I would endorse what @mcraenz and @handle9 said. It will take a whole lot of your time and emotional energy seeing the thing through, and at the end of it you may well get stiffed on the payment even if you win. Peoples' experiences with the Disputes Tribunal are pretty mixed (there has been ongoing efforts at reform for about ten years now). For the sake of a couple of thousand dollars, I know I would be considering my options very carefully.

Another option to consider is complaining to the police and seeing if there is any scope for criminal reparation for fraud.

Police are involved, as is his parole officer as we have evidence he has breached his terms of parole. There is lots of stuff happening in the background.

The 2500 we lose if we don't take him, pales in comparison to the cost we then have to spend to fix the mess he has made.

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