Water leak under concrete driveway: how to find / repair without ruining driveway

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#1828773 25-Jul-2017 06:55

No trees around us fortunately. I guess we wait for the council letter, then we find someone who can help us find the leak spot as non-destructively as possible, then decide the best solution.

If anyone knows a firm in Wellington that can find the leaks this way please let me know.

Bung

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#1828783 25-Jul-2017 07:53

How concreted is your section. On our hill many of the neighbours old pipes have been replaced with the blue poly pipe that seems OK just lying on the ground if necessary. You might find a longer route to the house works because the pipe is cheaper.

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#1828788 25-Jul-2017 08:05

Bung: How concreted is your section. On our hill many of the neighbours old pipes have been replaced with the blue poly pipe that seems OK just lying on the ground if necessary. You might find a longer route to the house works because the pipe is cheaper.

The driveway side of the house is 100% concreted, all the way back to the shed at the back of the property, between the fence and the house. That's where the water pipes are. The other side of the house is narrow but not concreted. I wouldn't want ugly water pipes over the ground.

Putting in a whole new water connection sounds expensive. Probably cheaper than redoing the driveway, but still, expensive. We might still have to dig through concrete to find the spot with the leak, if we want the outside taps to work, just because of the layout.

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#1828789 25-Jul-2017 08:06

timmmay:

No trees around us fortunately. I guess we wait for the council letter, then we find someone who can help us find the leak spot as non-destructively as possible, then decide the best solution.

If anyone knows a firm in Wellington that can find the leaks this way please let me know.

Ok maybe no trees, but any option to pipe above ground?

timmmay

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#1828793 25-Jul-2017 08:13

Batman:

Ok maybe no trees, but any option to pipe above ground?

I'd probably rather pay for a below ground connection. It'd be extremely ugly above ground given the house and section setup, plus more vulnerable to damage.

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#1829058 25-Jul-2017 13:22

Been through something similar but with smoke testing to check whether storm water is getting into the sewer. Cost me $4,280 in plumbing fees to get a broken ceramic pipe fixed. Doubtful whether water was being transferred as the plumber couldn't see it happening with the camera but the smoke apparently did. Frustrating as you see nothing for the expenditure!

So, I feel for you timmmay.

Good luck but fear you are in for a largish bill.

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#1829062 25-Jul-2017 13:31

I found a company that says that can locate the leak if it's a copper pipe, which I think it is. They charge either $170 or $280 per hour and that's includes work time and travel time, with travel time at least 20 minutes in each direction. I'm not sure what their charge is, as they say operator $195/hr, hire equipment $85/hr, but they add those numbers together to get $170/hr.

The trick might be finding where the pipe goes, and where it comes into the house.

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#1831908 26-Jul-2017 23:57

What is the shutoff tap (toby) location for new connections? Could you get the council to move it to the footpath? Dig up the pipe that goes between the street main and your toby, and relocate the shutoff to the footpath? From there you could thrust a new pipe to the house.

What type of house construction do you have? Slab on ground or underhouse crawl space?

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#1831928 27-Jul-2017 06:53

Aredwood:

What is the shutoff tap (toby) location for new connections? Could you get the council to move it to the footpath? Dig up the pipe that goes between the street main and your toby, and relocate the shutoff to the footpath? From there you could thrust a new pipe to the house.

What type of house construction do you have? Slab on ground or underhouse crawl space?

The toby is in the middle of the driveway, which is on council land. I guess it could be moved to the street, but you'd need to dig up a small part of the driveway for that.

It's an old house, wooden on piles. There's crawl space but the section is on a bit of a slope, you can get under one side of the house, not easily to the side where the water comes in.

Moving the toby to the footpath on the side of the house with easy access could be fiddly, as the street is 1-2m above the level of the house. Maybe it's practical. I'll definitely consider that option.

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#1831998 27-Jul-2017 08:25

Is there such a thing as a coating that can go over the concrete? Not paint, but some strong coating, maybe epoxy based. Reasoning is to cut out the small concrete section to repair the leak, pour and match as well as possible, then coat the whole driveway, thereby retaining the pattern, and losing the repair evidence

timmmay

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#1831999 27-Jul-2017 08:28

tdgeek:

Is there such a thing as a coating that can go over the concrete? Not paint, but some strong coating, maybe epoxy based. Reasoning is to cut out the small concrete section to repair the leak, pour and match as well as possible, then coat the whole driveway, thereby retaining the pattern, and losing the repair evidence

You couldn't get the same pattern with a new pour easily. You'd have to find the mold to start with, try to match the color, etc.

If you could cut it out and lift it up that could work. Then we would fill the cut marks with some kind of filler, flexible or solid I don't really know. I'd ask a concrete guy to do it.

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#1832017 27-Jul-2017 09:01

timmmay:

..they have area water meters, usage increased.. they can hear water running under our driveway.

Your contractor will likely drill a couple of holes near where the 'running water' noise is. Excess water will be obvious.

If it turns out water's been leaking at anything larger than a pinhole rate they'll need to cut a good size chunk of your driveway out.

As well as repairing the leak, they'll need to excavate the slush that used to be the hard fill under your driveway, replace it with compacted aggregate and re-concrete over the top.

If it's copper pipe, and corrosion/thinning has caused the leak, might be time (as others have said) to re-route your supply through poly.

tdgeek

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#1832027 27-Jul-2017 09:10

Sidestep:

timmmay:

..they have area water meters, usage increased.. they can hear water running under our driveway.

Your contractor will likely drill a couple of holes near where the 'running water' noise is. Excess water will be obvious.

If it turns out water's been leaking at anything larger than a pinhole rate they'll need to cut a good size chunk of your driveway out.

As well as repairing the leak, they'll need to excavate the slush that used to be the hard fill under your driveway, replace it with compacted aggregate and re-concrete over the top.

If it's copper pipe, and corrosion/thinning has caused the leak, might be time (as others have said) to re-route your supply through poly.

I was just about to suggest that, and go as far as to have 100mm of concrete under the piece that is put back, to preserve the strength. Massage the joins with damp concrete to help conceal them, may not be too bad

timmmay

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#1832031 27-Jul-2017 09:17

Sidestep:

Your contractor will likely drill a couple of holes near where the 'running water' noise is. Excess water will be obvious.

If it turns out water's been leaking at anything larger than a pinhole rate they'll need to cut a good size chunk of your driveway out.

As well as repairing the leak, they'll need to excavate the slush that used to be the hard fill under your driveway, replace it with compacted aggregate and re-concrete over the top.

If it's copper pipe, and corrosion/thinning has caused the leak, might be time (as others have said) to re-route your supply through poly.

Thanks for the thoughts. The council guy listened at the toby, the leak could be anywhere along the length of the pipe. The impression he gave is that it's a small leak caused by an earthquake near the front of the driveway, not too far from the toby.

Sounds like it's going to be expensive, disruptive, and will completely ruin the driveway if we need to repair. We might be best putting in a whole new connection down the other side of the house, underground.

Bung

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#1832073 27-Jul-2017 09:46

I think blaming earthquakes is just one of those easy things to say. My neighbour had leak from his pipe in the grass berm just after Chorus had been through burying fibre. Rather than wait I dug down to see what had happened and found the toby had about 500mm of copper before a joint to a type of polybutyline pipe normally used inside. The grey poly pipe had a pinhole split just after the compression ring. The plumber that fixed it by cutting out the split section and adding a short piece said that normally that type of pipe was ok so long as it wasn't exposed to UV. The pipe is much thinner than the blue type normally used.

Your pipe may be copper then joint onto something else close to the toby. Can you see what type of pipe arrives at the house? If it is a joint failure close to the toby you may end up with a cut out big enough to expose it. If and when metering ever arrives you'd need a bigger toby box anyway.

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