Ventilation Question (2018)

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Networkn
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#2083882 4-Sep-2018 15:42

mdf:
networkn:

It's a 12 year old modern 5 bedroom home. 4 Bedrooms and 2 bathrooms are on the top level accessible via ceiling space, so no, I don't really think it's a difficult installation.

I am going to query cleanaire on it.

Upstairs sounds straightforward then. Is the difficulty getting it downstairs?

I am unsure to be honest. It's a pretty standard 2 story house, there isn't much between the floors you could duct I'd imagine. There is $800 labour in my quote. The rest is parts.

Aredwood

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#2083888 4-Sep-2018 15:52

Buy some dehumidifiers? Far cheaper than spending $8K on a ventilation system.

Although if you don't have adequate heating. Fix that first, before worrying about moisture problems. As often inadequate heating is the cause of condensation issues.

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#2083892 4-Sep-2018 15:57

Aredwood: Buy some dehumidifiers? Far cheaper than spending $8K on a ventilation system.

Although if you don't have adequate heating. Fix that first, before worrying about moisture problems. As often inadequate heating is the cause of condensation issues.

We have good heating. Usually our house is super toasty.

I imagine running dehumidifiers in the 3 rooms we have the biggest issues, lots, would have a significant power cost.

We have smartvent turning up tonight, let's see what they have to say.

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#2083894 4-Sep-2018 16:02

Easiest way is to leave all the windows gapped / open, alternatively install a ventilation system of your choice

networkn

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#2083895 4-Sep-2018 16:03

Cleanaire say the cost is about what they would expect. 2K in Ducting, 3.5K in the system itself and Sparky, Labour, freight.

We can safely eliminate that as an option.

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#2083993 4-Sep-2018 19:15

Our home is similar. 5 BR, 2 storey, modern 2010/11, We have two heat pumps, gas cooktop. We dont get moisture issues, although we do get condensation on some double glazed alu windows. (Alu not PVC) ChCh is different to AKL due to humidity, but both houses will be airtight.

I googled moisture meters, couldn't see much apart from checking hard surfaces, wood, etc, I guess a wall would do.

My feeling is with a 245 house, why would moisture be an issue? Is it feasible to check moisture in each room, say at morning, noon, night, to get a feel where its coming from? I assume the foundation is a slab?

Upstairs we have 2 bedrooms, hall, living area, main BR. Sun in morning to the smaller BR, sun at afternoon to main BR and lobby

Downstairs its sunny from mid morning onwards. No real cold parts.

I'd be looking at the culprit then deciding what to do.

If it was a tiny house, damp from lack of sun, hills and trees, there is the answer, but I'd look for the culprit. A larger house has lots of space to dissipate moisture.

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#2083995 4-Sep-2018 19:18

Batman:

Easiest way is to leave all the windows gapped / open, alternatively install a ventilation system of your choice

Not really helpful, if AKL is wet a lot, and humid. The ventilation is a good idea, maybe OP can create a thread on that.....

Noted: Forums › Home Workshop › Ventilation Question (2018)

timmmay

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#2084067 4-Sep-2018 21:12

We have a really basic ventilation system that was in the house when we got it. We just run it on a $10 timer so it's not pushing cold air into the house all the time. Winter it runs something like 11am to 3pm, plus for 15 minutes in the evening and 15 minutes overnight. Summer it runs maybe 7am to 10am and 8pm to 10pm or so. That's plenty to keep the house fresh, the right temperature. We also have double glazed windows that can be locked open slightly.

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#2084070 4-Sep-2018 21:15

Our walls have a built in hands free ventilation system! Lol

networkn

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#2084187 5-Sep-2018 09:37

So SmartVent came around last night. We ended up with a guy who spoke broken English and who really struggled to communicate the positives and negatives. We did get a price, but he said for a house built in 2006 only their "positive" system would be suited. $5500 with the touchscreen and extra sensors and the summer kit.

My understand is that a positive system isn't ideal, and a proper HRV is what we require, but he said it would require tiles to be removed from the roof as the unit is huge and heavy. He didn't recommend it except for brand new houses still being built.

I am interested in others experiences with SV, did you get the Synergy or the positive system and what kind of house do you have?

The Cleanaire seems to be a proper HRV at 8K and this SV system is 5K with only positive pressure.

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#2084200 5-Sep-2018 10:09

Firstly I've been following the various 'ventilation' threads over the years and found them enormously helpful - so thanks!!

Myself - I installed a MoistureMaster Heat Recovery unit into our renovated 1940's Wellington home about 8 years ago and it was the best $4K (about that anyway) I ever spent. It didn't have any bells or whistles! I installed it myself after buying the kit and it was pretty straight forward as the house was just a 3 bed with a tonne of roof space. We'd already had replacement windows done so the house was fairly air-tight. We'd typically lose about 2 degrees in temperature between the source heat (living room) and output (bedrooms) but the biggest thing was the complete absence of condensation after installing.

We've moved house recently and I'm in a similar position of figuring out what ventilation to install. I think I will go Positive ventilation this time because A) its way cheaper B) I'm not too worried about returning heat as we've got gas central heating that is more than adequate c) the house is quite 'leaky' with old windows etc. I've been checking out the various wholesale suppliers and will probably install myself again.

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mdf

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#2084204 5-Sep-2018 10:14

networkn:

So SmartVent came around last night. We ended up with a guy who spoke broken English and who really struggled to communicate the positives and negatives. We did get a price, but he said for a house built in 2006 only their "positive" system would be suited. $5500 with the touchscreen and extra sensors and the summer kit.

My understand is that a positive system isn't ideal, and a proper HRV is what we require, but he said it would require tiles to be removed from the roof as the unit is huge and heavy. He didn't recommend it except for brand new houses still being built.

I am interested in others experiences with SV, did you get the Synergy or the positive system and what kind of house do you have?

The Cleanaire seems to be a proper HRV at 8K and this SV system is 5K with only positive pressure.

I'm surprised at this. I thought the orthodox advice was that positive pressure systems worked best for older houses where there were sufficient drafts/cracks for the dry air to essentially push out the moist air. Balanced systems (with a return for sucking out the older air) were better for newer build houses that are much more airtight.

I'd also be very surprised if roof removal was really required for a modern system unless your access is shocking. We installed full blown central heating (the unit would easily be a 1 m cube fully assembled) that easily fitted through a <0.5 m wide hatch (admittedly a vertical door rather than horizontal hatch). It was designed to go in in pieces and then be assembled (which was basically bolting bits together) in situ. I can't imagine any kind of manufacturer would do themselves out of potential business by making a product new-build /remove-roof only proposition.

Even then, I'd imagine it will still be substantially cheaper to install a bigger access hatch (attic stairs are great for this).

Does Auckland have an equivalent of Wellington's Sustainability Trust? You might be better off with independent advice rather than trying to have a particular product pushed on you.

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#2084206 5-Sep-2018 10:21

What mdf says makes total sense!

mdf

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#2084215 5-Sep-2018 10:28

@evileric - if you've already got gas central heating (with all those ducts and a heat exchanger already) another option is to see if you can add a fresh air component to that. We've got a Bonaire central heating system that I can set to take in outside air for ventilation purposes in fan-only mode. I'm not sure I'd fully recommend Bonaire for a new build - the controllers are massively dumb compared to what I was expecting (I'm trying some home solutions for this). But if you've got an existing system you might be able to bolt on something for this purpose.

hadenkose

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#2084226 5-Sep-2018 10:39

networkn:

So SmartVent came around last night. We ended up with a guy who spoke broken English and who really struggled to communicate the positives and negatives. We did get a price, but he said for a house built in 2006 only their "positive" system would be suited. $5500 with the touchscreen and extra sensors and the summer kit.

My understand is that a positive system isn't ideal, and a proper HRV is what we require, but he said it would require tiles to be removed from the roof as the unit is huge and heavy. He didn't recommend it except for brand new houses still being built.

I am interested in others experiences with SV, did you get the Synergy or the positive system and what kind of house do you have?

The Cleanaire seems to be a proper HRV at 8K and this SV system is 5K with only positive pressure.

I've got the SV Evolve Positive Pressure with Summer feature installed in our place just north of Auckland (Cost inc. install of about $4800 for 4 outlets, 4 sensors and added summer feature). I love it!!! We've got a small (105m2) 3 bed, 2 bathroom house that is only 4 years old. As said above, homes these days are built so airtight, just living in them causes a lot of moisture to build up in the house. I was surprised that during winter our double glazed aluminium joinery would get quite damp with condensation (frames and windows). With the SV system installed, it has all but eliminated the issue throughout the house. We have good heaters in each bedroom (dimplex panel heaters with a great thermostat) and a heatpump in our main living room. I have window locks that let me have my windows open slightly while still being locked, which allows me to have one window in each room cracked open permanently. It might seem counter intuitive to leave windows open in winter, but all houses need to have the windows opened for at least a small period of the day, to allow the air to circulate through and bring in fresh air, removing the damp old air. During winter the theory behind this is that the newer, dryer air that is being pushed in by the smart vent, is easier to heat than the older damp air already in the room. The SV Evolve system is a much better option than in my opinion than say, HRV positive pressure, because it has temperature and humidity sensors and will automatically turn itself on/off when it senses the condensation about to form in any room. They have options of inline ducting heaters, which are supposed to be pretty efficient and can heat the air being blown into the room, if you're worried about it being cold.

I would have liked the Synergy system, but I have a mono pitched house with no room for it in our roof space. I was told by my installer and SV that their heat transfer system (using your own heat pump as the heat source) was very inefficient when used with a heatpump, and that it only really works with a wood or gas fire heat source. I was a bit of a test case for our installer, but we managed to fit it all into my existing cupboards, and building a couple of barely noticeable bulkheads at ceiling level, where the ducting had to jump between cupboards.

All in all, I'm totally stoked with our system and would very much recommend it. If you want to chat, you are more than welcome to PM me and then give me a call.

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