New tenancy laws coming into effect Feb 11 2021

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#2631336 6-Jan-2021 19:53

gbwelly:

It can only be fixed by increasing housing supply but this government seems to think you can just pass a law to fix the problem.

Has housing supply been awesome up till now? No. It has been poor from both parties. Factor in Covid and you have well over 90,000 returning home. I read an article a short while back where the only periods where any Govt built heaps, was post 1930's Depression and WW2. Maybe we can move towards a market driven economy?

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#2631339 6-Jan-2021 20:00

I was reading all the threads and I found them very interesting, however I must say you all understand why these laws are being bought in don't you?

Landlords who do not do proper up keep of the house

Landlords that do all the renovating themselves

Landlords that do not use subcontractors who are going to do the job properly instead of just a quick shotty job

Landlords that do not follow the rules when it comes to claiming insurance

I live in a house for 6 years, the landlord left me to do all of the up keep of the house

The wiring in the house was so shotty that we would through 100 light bulbs a year at the highest point, I kept track of it, the light bulbs blow all the time cause all the lights in the house opened directly into the roof cavity so all the moisture went straight into the ceiling, we had one builder tell us 2 years before we moved that it had black mold in the ceiling.

I told him a year and a half before leaving that there was a problem in the shower, it was leaking into the wall and the floor was going all funny around the base of it, I told him and additional 5 times before moving out, and when it come time to leave after a year and a bit of telling me he would get insurance to cover it, I found out he was going to try put the blame on me cause he didn't have insurance, cause he installed the shower himself and I realised he never once filled out an inspection sheet or gave me a copy, by law he was meant to for insurance.

We had the water boiler pop on us while living there and we lost all our kids birth certificates and marriage certificate and a heap of other important documentation, cause the water boiler was in our wardrobe in our bedroom. After it popped, he got it fix, he left it at that 2 days later I rang him cause he was thinking it would just air dry and we just would have the use of the wardrobe while it was drying. So I called him with the idea of getting and industrial dehumidifier, and he expect us to pay half, we are on the benefit so you can image paying $350 at a drop of a hat was no easy feet to help fix an issue that was cause by his water boiler.

Then to top it off when moving out, he had a go at us about the carpet, we asked when we moved in 'how old is the carpet' and we were told 4 years old, then we lived there for 6 years, I spoke to carpet retailers and the said with a 6 person family, living in a two bedroom house, the carpet is going to do that within 10 years time and he expected us to replace the carpet and he even lied and said the carpet was brand new when we moved in.

And then to top it all off, the worse thing ever and I feel so guilty about, I let him win a tenacy dispute between him and one of his other tenants over smoke alarms, when we moved in there was only one smoke alarm on one side of the house, incorrectly installed, so I installed 4 more and removed the incorrectly installed one and fixed the wall where the incorrectly installed one was, he comes in and me trying to keep my landlord happy so he won't up the rent, let him take photos of MY smoke alarms, it wasn't till after he had gone, I realised what I had done.

This is why good landlords are now having these laws imposed on them.

And the other reason is just what some of you have been talking about on this thread "don't want tenants, so would rather leave it empty", I mean come on, you know we have a housing shortage, you know that there are hundreds of people living on the streets with kids ( some who have to by no fault of there own ) and yet you choose to leave the house empty cause you don't want to repair it.

Its a house, whether you were living in it or someone else, its going to need repairs done, holes fixed, wear and tear repair. Even if you leave it empty, over time ( maybe less due to not having anyone in it ) its going to need the up keep done. I have owned a house before, I moved else where and become a renter and while the land agents where trying to find a tenant, the water boiler sprung a leak, a mouse caused wiring issues, I was still paying the rates and the lines bill, I mean come on, leaving the house empty does not stop the house aging, if anything it could come to irreparable damage occuring due to no one living in the house to spot things going wrong or worse someone breaking in to live there without anyone knowing. The only reason the water boiler and other things were found in my house was because I had my mother check in on the place while it was empty.

If you have rental properties but you chose to not rent them cause you don't want to have to repair things, then you should be selling your house and give the next generation a chance to own a house.

Sorry for the ranting on but I had to say something, some of the views on this thread where extremely saddening and inhumane to those that are living it hard because of those useless landlords and tenants that have done crappy things, that effect the good landlords and tenants out there.

On a side note, this is something that Work and income don't publicly advise people of but tenants if they are on the benefit and they come a knocking for a house from those of you that have rentals, you can actually get them to get a letter from work and income that states work and income will pay up to 2500 or 5000 dollars in repairs, if required. I have only recently found this out, after helping a couple of homeless people try to get a house and my wife did a heap of digging around on the winz website for me, while I chased down realestate agents.

One least thing, I am not saying anyone on here is a bad landlord, I am just giving what I have experienced over the last few years.

WinNZ90

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#2631345 6-Jan-2021 20:13

And I am sorry to say this, I forgot to mention it, about the whole laws thing.

If you chose to leave you house empty, that is a crime to humanity.

The only way the government could fix this issue is one, build loads of house, more than they are planning in a very short period of time. or two introduce capital gains tax so people stop buying all the houses and leaving them empty just so they can have something to live off when they get old and the only way to not get hit by the capital gains tax would be to have people living in your house.

This is as bad as all those people out there, that go an buy up new products before anyone else has a chance to buy it and triple the price on trademe, face masks and sanitiser for example.

Your buying a house, holding onto it for a number of years and tripling the price.

LIKE IT OR NOT, in a number of years, capital gains tax is going to be a real thing, whether it be tomorrow or in 10 years time, its coming, its just a matter of time, cause New Zealand does not have the land nor the materials to build more houses to the quantity we need.

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#2631367 6-Jan-2021 20:59

WinNZ90:

LIKE IT OR NOT, in a number of years, capital gains tax is going to be a real thing, whether it be tomorrow or in 10 years time, its coming, its just a matter of time, cause New Zealand does not have the land nor the materials to build more houses to the quantity we need.

You forgot to mention all the bad tenants who don't pay their rent, trash property, don't report issues, and for every issue you raise, I could find you a matching one the other side. There are ratbags on both sides of that equation, but notice how the laws are only really interested in penalizing the landlords, not making it fairer overall.

Australia has every property tax imagineable and their prices are up as much as ours and in many places much worse. CGT isn't a magic fix, in fact it's not the solution at all in my opinion. We have *plenty* of land, we need rapid intelligent cost effective development. More supply will solve the majority of issues. If the Government hadn't wasted their time and energy with Kiwibuild they could have reformed the RMA, and actually spent those resources fixing the actual problem.

WinNZ90

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#2631371 6-Jan-2021 21:16

Oh no I do understand that there are some bad tenants out there and I would also say that most of them would be in their early to late 20s.

The capital gains tax would not be to bring prices down, it would be to stop people having multiple housing and leaving them empty, like I said if you want to buy a house you agree you want all the problems that come with it, not just leave it there unused.

The price issue is a whole neither story, thats because due to the overseas buyers that still own loads of houses and the fact we are exporting so many resources out of the country and we pay more for them than those in the countries we export too, not to mention all of the work we have given to overseas companies and they ship it to us, when we are more than capable of doing it here in our country for ourselves.

And to the housing issues and the kiwibuild crap, they take far to long to actually build a single story house, in the UK there are construction companies that are so organized, they build a house in 3 weeks from start to finish all because they prefab the whole house in a factory in the first week and 2 weeks to put it together on site, thats including building the foundations in the first week.

sir1963

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#2631391 6-Jan-2021 22:32

WinNZ90:

And I am sorry to say this, I forgot to mention it, about the whole laws thing.

If you chose to leave you house empty, that is a crime to humanity.

The only way the government could fix this issue is one, build loads of house, more than they are planning in a very short period of time. or two introduce capital gains tax so people stop buying all the houses and leaving them empty just so they can have something to live off when they get old and the only way to not get hit by the capital gains tax would be to have people living in your house.

This is as bad as all those people out there, that go an buy up new products before anyone else has a chance to buy it and triple the price on trademe, face masks and sanitiser for example.

Your buying a house, holding onto it for a number of years and tripling the price.

LIKE IT OR NOT, in a number of years, capital gains tax is going to be a real thing, whether it be tomorrow or in 10 years time, its coming, its just a matter of time, cause New Zealand does not have the land nor the materials to build more houses to the quantity we need.

Crime to Humanity, what a load of bollocks.

The reality of ownership is that the owners can do what ever they like to their property.

And during most of the last 100 + years the share market outperformed the housing market.

We are in a unique situation where the GFC was followed by covid leading to a long period of low interest rates. But I remember when they were over 20%.

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#2631393 6-Jan-2021 22:45

Very often these well intentioned laws have unintended consequences which make things worse. Politicians not really understanding cause and effect.

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#2631394 6-Jan-2021 22:49

networkn:

WinNZ90:

LIKE IT OR NOT, in a number of years, capital gains tax is going to be a real thing, whether it be tomorrow or in 10 years time, its coming, its just a matter of time, cause New Zealand does not have the land nor the materials to build more houses to the quantity we need.

You forgot to mention all the bad tenants who don't pay their rent, trash property, don't report issues, and for every issue you raise, I could find you a matching one the other side. There are ratbags on both sides of that equation, but notice how the laws are only really interested in penalizing the landlords, not making it fairer overall.

There were already provisions for dealing with tenants who don't pay their rent, trash property etc. That's all part of the business risk of owning a rental property and can be insured. If the landlord is too cheap to take reasonable levels of insurance that's really their bad luck.

The reason why the laws are changing in favour of the tenant is NZ has really draconian laws in the favour of the landlord. It is very unusual internationally to have at will termination of a tenancy by the landlord with 90 days notice.

mattwnz

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#2631405 7-Jan-2021 02:41

networkn:

WinNZ90:

LIKE IT OR NOT, in a number of years, capital gains tax is going to be a real thing, whether it be tomorrow or in 10 years time, its coming, its just a matter of time, cause New Zealand does not have the land nor the materials to build more houses to the quantity we need.

You forgot to mention all the bad tenants who don't pay their rent, trash property, don't report issues, and for every issue you raise, I could find you a matching one the other side. There are ratbags on both sides of that equation, but notice how the laws are only really interested in penalizing the landlords, not making it fairer overall.

Australia has every property tax imagineable and their prices are up as much as ours and in many places much worse. CGT isn't a magic fix, in fact it's not the solution at all in my opinion. We have *plenty* of land, we need rapid intelligent cost effective development. More supply will solve the majority of issues. If the Government hadn't wasted their time and energy with Kiwibuild they could have reformed the RMA, and actually spent those resources fixing the actual problem.

I don't believe Australia's prices are up anywhere near as much as NZs this year. Apparently they only rose about 3% on Oz, whereas NZs rose 20% !

https://www.ft.com/content/007846fb-2b29-458a-b05b-25922fe088b1

NZs property bubble is seen as being the biggest bubble in the world, followed by Australia. But I had heard that there are signs of problems ahead in Australia with their property market. Apparently the Sydney rental apartment market is crashing and prices are being slashed https://www.domain.com.au/news/the-pockets-of-sydney-where-more-than-a-third-of-rentals-were-discounted-domain-data-1016125/ .

NZ could be in big trouble going forward with the fast big increase in our house prices, because it means that rents are likely to follow. Then what happens when interest rates increase. People are going to be paying more and more money for their living costs, especially FHBs and people who have purchased in the last few years at the peaks. Currently there are a huge number of people wanting to buy, but hardly anything on the market, partly due to xmas.

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#2631406 7-Jan-2021 02:48

scuwp:

The overall result will be higher rents and harder to get into a property, the 2 very things this government was trying to address. It will mean more homelessnes and fewer rentals...fail. I am all for healthy homes but some of the requirements (mostly heating) are so ridiculously over-the-top as to be laughable in some parts of NZ. Most owner occupied houses in NZ would NOT meet the new standards and yet are perfectly livable and healthy.

Some of the other changes are balanced and reasonable and most landlords who look after their properties and tenants and treat as a "business" won't have a problem with these. The scaremongering of landlords suddenly selling up en-mass is just crap. The majority will adapt, and hopefully the slum lords will fade away.

It isn't just these laws that will mean higher rent, but also the increase in house values, as investors will demand higher returns for the houses they are renting out. I think it will result in more ghost houses, as people just sit on the house, and not risk renting it out.

Apparently one of the things that these higher standard may have meant, is that more landlords would cash out and sell up, giving more opportunities for FHBs to buy their first home. But now it seems that there are more and more mum and dad investors buying in, who have no option as they have money in the bank losing buying power with the drops in interest rates. So they have to find higher risk things to invest in, that will earn them money on their cash.

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#2631439 7-Jan-2021 07:57

Technofreak: Very often these well intentioned laws have unintended consequences which make things worse. Politicians not really understanding cause and effect.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think they probably know that this policy isn't going to work. The problem that they have politically is that there isn't much they can do to substantially increase supply within the span of a 3 year electoral cycle, so they need to be seen to be doing something even if it's going to be ineffective.

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#2631449 7-Jan-2021 08:18

Let's not get confused here. These recent changes in Tenancy laws have nothing to do with increasing supply or are in any way trying to solve the housing crisis in NZ. They are simply about trying to bring NZ Tenancy laws up to spec with the rest of the developed world. Over the last 20-30 years every developed country has progressed their tenancy laws to transfer power from the landlord to the tenant while NZ has stood still. What's coming into effect in February has been common practice for many years throughout the UK and Europe.

The housing crisis needs to be addressed separately through policy and actions but that doesn't take away from the fact that NZ Tenancy laws were way out of date and needed a considerable overhaul.

gbwelly

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#2631461 7-Jan-2021 08:40

Senecio:

These recent changes in Tenancy laws have nothing to do with increasing supply or are in any way trying to solve the housing crisis in NZ.

If only the two weren't so intertwined. These changes would not be required if there wasn't a housing shortage. If anything, to me they feel more like an admission of defeat that a large chunk of people will now be lifelong renters.

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#2631463 7-Jan-2021 08:41

WinNZ90:

The only way the government could fix this issue is one, build loads of house, more than they are planning in a very short period of time. or two introduce capital gains tax so people stop buying all the houses and leaving them empty just so they can have something to live off when they get old and the only way to not get hit by the capital gains tax would be to have people living in your house.

Capital gains taxes don't reduce property prices. Period. They haven't anywhere in the world, and it's not the purpose of such a tax. Why people continue to believe they do is a mystery to me.

LIKE IT OR NOT, in a number of years, capital gains tax is going to be a real thing, whether it be tomorrow or in 10 years time, its coming, its just a matter of time, cause New Zealand does not have the land nor the materials to build more houses to the quantity we need.

We have a CGT on property now. It's called a bright-line test.

Capital gains taxes are there to bring fairness to a tax system by ensuring that tax is paid on capital gains just like you pay tax on interest earned elsewhere. I'm totally supportive of further capital gains taxes on things such as property, but of course you can only introduce such a tax if losses can be carried forward as well, because you can't have it one way and not the other.

No government ever wants to see property prices fall, and the current government are no different. People's wealth decreasing, especially when their house is their biggest asset is just a guaranteed way to lose an election.

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#2631539 7-Jan-2021 10:04

sbiddle:

WinNZ90:

The only way the government could fix this issue is one, build loads of house, more than they are planning in a very short period of time. or two introduce capital gains tax so people stop buying all the houses and leaving them empty just so they can have something to live off when they get old and the only way to not get hit by the capital gains tax would be to have people living in your house.

Capital gains taxes don't reduce property prices. Period. They haven't anywhere in the world, and it's not the purpose of such a tax. Why people continue to believe they do is a mystery to me.

Indeed. It seems one of the benefits of a CGT should be so the government doesn't miss out on income from a sector of the economy which is lightly/untaxed. That income could be used for other things.

This thread has devolved into the 'housing post covid' thread and could be merged beyond this point.

I know there are some cries that the government is not doing enough, but this is because many people cannot handle rapid changes which come as a shock to them and society. Gradual and gentle change is obviously a Labour policy so they don't scare the horses.

To help with the housing shortage, obviously we need the government to pull levers on both the supply and demand sides. I see these new laws as being one thing to make it less desirable to be a landlord, added to recent changes requiring insulation and so on.

Taxing property value increases would be another thing make it less desirable.

Making changes to make it easier on the supply side are also needed. I'd like to see Fletchers investigated to see whether their vertical integration is increasing the prices of building materials unnecessarily. They own everything from forests through to electrical wholesalers.

Maybe we also need a squatting law so empty houses can be used. Seems a crime to have people living in cars when perfectly good houses sit empty.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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