Efficient Heating for old Flat

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#837755 16-Jun-2013 19:38

Thanks. While at LV Martin I looked at the Dyson heater. A bit more noise than I thought it would be. Didn't buy on spot because of the price tag. I feel it worth a couple of hundred dollars less.

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alasta

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#837762 16-Jun-2013 19:54

freitasm: The draft stopper is just a v-shaped tape with glue in one side that put against the window or doors. When the door/window is closed the V will be facing outwards so any incoming draft will atually put pressure in it, opening the V even more, blocking any flow.

I'm assuming this is available at general hardware stores?

During winter I usually keep enough doors shut that I'm only heating and dehumidifying my living room and bedroom. In this part of the flat all of the windows either don't open, or are aluminium framed with the exception of one. I'm pretty sure that the sole wooden framed window is leaking a bit of heat and humidity so if there is an opportunitity to make it more airtight then it's worth looking into.

freitasm

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#837764 16-Jun-2013 19:56

Yes, most general stores will have that.

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oxnsox

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#837766 16-Jun-2013 20:06

freitasm: Thanks. While at LV Martin I looked at the Dyson heater. A bit more noise than I thought it would be. Didn't buy on spot because of the price tag. I feel it worth a couple of hundred dollars less.

Yes it can be noisy, but it does have 10 fan speed settings (and am not running it in the same room).
And yes it's not cheap. But by asking for a better deal, got $100 off.

stuzzo

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#837800 16-Jun-2013 21:15

alasta:
freitasm: The draft stopper is just a v-shaped tape with glue in one side that put against the window or doors. When the door/window is closed the V will be facing outwards so any incoming draft will atually put pressure in it, opening the V even more, blocking any flow.

I'm assuming this is available at general hardware stores?

During winter I usually keep enough doors shut that I'm only heating and dehumidifying my living room and bedroom. In this part of the flat all of the windows either don't open, or are aluminium framed with the exception of one. I'm pretty sure that the sole wooden framed window is leaking a bit of heat and humidity so if there is an opportunitity to make it more airtight then it's worth looking into.

I've found the v-seal quite hard to track down at stores. There is this website but they didn't have the colour I wanted when I ordered.

http://www.nrl.co.nz/vseal.aspx

Jaxson

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#837815 16-Jun-2013 21:34

freitasm: Tempervent could probably be something interesting since heating the incoming air to 15c before pushing inside the house would be better than pushing colder air.

Get your cheque book out to run this. Forced ventilation costs a lot to run. They are straight electric elements so no heat pump efficiencies on these add on heating elements.

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Skolink

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#837822 16-Jun-2013 21:43

I wanted to install a small heatpump in our daughter's room a couple of years ago, but didn't get 'approval'. Instead I measured the power consumption of the convection heater over about 5 months during winter, maintaining 18°C at night. Total was only $83 (at about 20c/kWh IIRC). A bit hard to justify a heatpump on the grounds of cost saving, no matter how efficient.

DarthKermit

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#837828 16-Jun-2013 21:56

A bit off topic (sorry): I was under our house today doing something. It's been so damned damp under there that a bunch of mushroomy thingys are busy growing! Arrg, the joys of house ownership.

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Skolink

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#837832 16-Jun-2013 22:05

DarthKermit: A bit off topic (sorry): I was under our house today doing something. It's been so damned damp under there that a bunch of mushroomy thingys are busy growing! Arrg, the joys of house ownership.

I hope you wear at least a dust mask, fungus spores can be quite bad for you. But home ownership, yeah, I hear ya.

Hammerer

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#837855 16-Jun-2013 23:09

RileyB: ... as far as I can tell all the external walls are solid Oamaru Stone brick, and where the bottom of a two story flat.

timmmay: The second floor should act as insulation of sorts.... maybe.

RileyB, In your situation, you will probably find that having another level above makes very little difference to heat losses.

In those old buildings there are often ventilation holes between floors which allow heat to escape more readily.
Unless there are compartments formed over each room then the convective air currents can be fearsome. Heating one room can boost the convective flows so the heat is distributed over all the rooms. That draws colder air back over the heated room thereby increasing the rate of heat loss. We lived in one Dunedin flat that we couldn't heat effectively. The air was moving so quickly in the floorspace that while lying in bed at night we could hear it whistling under the joists.

Rugs on the walls and ceilings reduce direct heat transfer and convective airflows.

Personally, I'd forget about heating entire rooms unless you can afford the power bill or, even better, raise the temperature with sunlight during the day. If neither then I'd focus on keeping myself warm by using thermal clothing, blankets/duvets, hot water bottles and, where you need a boost, radiant heaters.

freitasm

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#837917 17-Jun-2013 08:42

Well, turned off the dehumidifier overnight (even though they say it's quiet, it really is not). This morning we had no condensation at all in any window in the house. This is after having it running a few hours the previous day.

The house also felt warmer, even though no heaters were on overnight.

So far so good.

Skolink:
DarthKermit: A bit off topic (sorry): I was under our house today doing something. It's been so damned damp under there that a bunch of mushroomy thingys are busy growing! Arrg, the joys of house ownership.

I hope you wear at least a dust mask, fungus spores can be quite bad for you. But home ownership, yeah, I hear ya.

Yes, this is a danger. I remember seeing some documentary about this in that scientific documentary of the 90s, The X Files. ;-P

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DarthKermit

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#837967 17-Jun-2013 10:51

freitasm: Well, turned off the dehumidifier overnight (even though they say it's quiet, it really is not). This morning we had no condensation at all in any window in the house. This is after having it running a few hours the previous day.

The house also felt warmer, even though no heaters were on overnight.

So far so good.

Skolink:
DarthKermit: A bit off topic (sorry): I was under our house today doing something. It's been so damned damp under there that a bunch of mushroomy thingys are busy growing! Arrg, the joys of house ownership.

I hope you wear at least a dust mask, fungus spores can be quite bad for you. But home ownership, yeah, I hear ya.

Yes, this is a danger. I remember seeing some documentary about this in that scientific documentary of the 90s, The X Files. ;-P

Well if I start mutating into one of the monsters featured on that show, I'll be sure to let you know. :P

I'll post a pic of my mushroom farm after work today.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

Skolink

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#837971 17-Jun-2013 10:58

freitasm: Well, turned off the dehumidifier overnight (even though they say it's quiet, it really is not). This morning we had no condensation at all in any window in the house. This is after having it running a few hours the previous day.

The house also felt warmer, even though no heaters were on overnight.

So far so good.

As you are probably already aware, in a damp house dehumidifiers are approximately 170% efficient as heaters. You get 'free' heat from the latent heat of evaporation from the water you are collecting, in addition to the electrical energy consumed (turned to heat) by the compressor and fan.
If you have access to a Consumer online subscription, they measured the efficiency of several models.

What make/model dehumidifier did you buy, and how much did it cost. I'm wondering if we should get one. Cheapo weather station normally reads about 70% humidity (indoors).

alasta

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#838035 17-Jun-2013 12:16

Skolink: As you are probably already aware, in a damp house dehumidifiers are approximately 170% efficient as heaters. You get 'free' heat from the latent heat of evaporation from the water you are collecting, in addition to the electrical energy consumed (turned to heat) by the compressor and fan.
If you have access to a Consumer online subscription, they measured the efficiency of several models.

I've heard that reducing the ambient humidity also increases the effectiveness of any heater that you may have running. Is this true? If so then you have an even better economic benefit.

What make/model dehumidifier did you buy, and how much did it cost. I'm wondering if we should get one. Cheapo weather station normally reads about 70% humidity (indoors).

I previously had a cheap Goldair model and replaced it with a Mitsubishi model about a year ago. The Mitsubishi was double the price of the cheaper alternatives but well worth the price difference for various reasons, mainly the difference in noise levels. The Mitsubishi makes a similar noise to a small fan heater so it's still mildly bothersome, but much better than the Goldair which sounded more like a truck idling right outside the house.

I find that my machine holds 60% humidity comfortably but struggles to manage 55% when it's running, and when it's switched off overnight it climbs back up towards 70%. That's why I want to try plugging up that window - as others have pointed out you need to isolate sources of moisture before you can get the full benefit of a dehumidifier.

timmmay

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#838040 17-Jun-2013 12:23

Humidity is water in the air. It's heavier and therefore more expensive to heat, so yes dry air is cheaper to heat.

People are a big source of moisture, plugging holes could increase humidity.

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