Solar options for home in 2022

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1230 posts

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#3310113 18-Nov-2024 13:54

We're currently experiencing limitations on our inverter output that are a direct result of grid voltage variations that are our lines company's doing.

To background our situation we are located in a rural area so grid anomalies are an expected part of life. We installed an upgrade to our system in August 2023 and soon found that the inverter (an 8.2kW Fronius Primo single phase) was shutting down intermittently due to its detecting grid voltage variations. The inverter monitors export levels and throttles to comply with our 5kW export cap. As a result of the issues we had our installer increase the inverter's operating grid voltage parameters on Fronius's instruction. Problem solved.

In the last couple of months our lines company, Powerco, installed upgraded transformers and voltage regulating equipment in our area. Since then we have noticed that the inverter spends most of the day displaying a "Notice: State 567" which indicates a grid frequency issue. In addition I have noted that the inverter isn't reaching its maximum output capacity of 8.2kW but only ~7.5kW. We have 9.5kW of panels on it and an 8.2kW output was a near constant last summer. Also the export cap isn't being reached and is typically ~4kW despite 5kW being potentially available. Also the inverter output is falling short even when we're charging an EV which leaves only small residual generation for export.

The word from our installer and Fronius Australia who can both see our inverter data is that the unit is reducing its output due to excessive grid voltage (up to 246.5V) in order to prevent contributing to a problem there. This diagnosis fits exactly with the behaviour I'm seeing on the inverter. I'm currently waiting for a callback from Powerco as the staff member was in a meeting when I rang them earlier today.

From what our installer is saying I expect to be flicked off by Powerco but the light at the end of the tunnel is that upcoming changes in NZS4777 will permit us to widen our inverter's grid voltage parameters when that occurs to +/-10% rather than the current +/-5% which will solve the problem. In the meantime our peak generation period over summer will be clipped by Powerco's issues.

So, in essence we're suffering output restrictions due to the malfunctioning of Powerco's infrastructure despite having to comply with their export cap and other installation regulations. Is there anybody else out there that are experiencing similar issues in their (rural?) location?

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Ge0rge

2114 posts

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#3310179 18-Nov-2024 15:33

Yes, I get the same and also with PowerCo in a rural area. Just myself and a neighbour sharing the same single phase transformer. GoodWe 5kW inverter with 6.2kW of panels.

Interestingly enough, my annually calibrated multimeter matches the electricity meter voltage reading accurately, however the inverter reads about half a volt higher where it is - and measuring the voltage with the multimeter at the inverter shows it's the inverter that is inaccurate, not a voltage drop between the inverter and the meter. PowerCo are still providing electricity at the very top end of the spec though, and it does cause the inverter to limit its output.

RobDickinson

1526 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 513

#3310283 18-Nov-2024 16:24

Hmm 2nd day in a row the PW has just.. stopped...

No solar production, nothing from the battery, app is still talking to it but it shows no real diagnostics

yesterday I literally switched it off and back on again and that fixed it but..

And it seems you cant log into the gateway with pw3, it has its own wifi and the pw is on the inside of the case..

dantheperson

226 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 63

#3310305 18-Nov-2024 17:29

chimera:

Got my solar data showing up on my Magic Mirror now.

Nice to see what's going on as I walk passed :-)

Nice.

Are you satisfied with your basengreen battery so far? I was looking to get one and a Victron Multiplus II to retrofit a battery to my Fronius install.

chimera

563 posts

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#3310309 18-Nov-2024 17:53

dantheperson:

chimera:

Got my solar data showing up on my Magic Mirror now.

Nice to see what's going on as I walk passed :-)

Nice.

Are you satisfied with your basengreen battery so far? I was looking to get one and a Victron Multiplus II to retrofit a battery to my Fronius install.

Absolutely stoked with it!!! Basically about NZ$3500 for 15KwH (or really 12Kwh usable, coz 80% DoD) inclusive of shipping to my door (believe that includes GST too since NZ forced China to start collecting it) I've ordered a 2nd one which should arrive by Xmas so giving me 24KwH usable LifePO4.

Have 8.5kW PV and will add a little more when carport is built (as ran out of roof space on house)

The Deye 8K hybrid inverter is brilliant too and integrates into Home Assistant perfectly. Kudos to Heinz for his work on the ESP32 https://github.com/tomatensaus/DeyeSolarDesktop

As of right now...

chimera

563 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#3310312 18-Nov-2024 18:10

I'm a fairly heavy power user at average 60kwh per day

Still waiting for import/export meter to be installed, although if you're exporting you're wasting money (although granted, still a bonus for the days when PV exceeds load + battery charge)

I've also got a zigbee RCD for sparky to install for HWC when he comes back to finish a few small things, so can control HWC to come on via automation (sucks 3500W when it heats)

Also added this to Spa pool https://store.jonathangiles.net/product/espa-mini/ (it's open source if you can be bothered making your own, I couldn't, although designed and 3D printed a case for it) The Shelly EM I have will be repurposed (as get all power data from deye dongle now) for monitoring spa pool wattage (as I have v1 of controller which doesn't support supplying watts) so can control when that turn on too

Still experimenting with Deye time of use settings.

Finally if you haven't seen it, an absolute must watch TED talk...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXwGvLj4rak

dantheperson

226 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 63

#3310362 18-Nov-2024 22:58

chimera:

Also added this to Spa pool https://store.jonathangiles.net/product/espa-mini/ (it's open source if you can be bothered making your own, I couldn't, although designed and 3D printed a case for it) The Shelly EM I have will be repurposed (as get all power data from deye dongle now) for monitoring spa pool wattage (as I have v1 of controller which doesn't support supplying watts) so can control when that turn on too

Thanks for that, i was just about to splash out on the official wifi controller for the spa. Although that has MQTT support for home automation, this opensource project looks much more interesting, and much cheaper hardware.

Do you know how much power your spa draws when it's just maintaining on the heat and filtration cycle? Getting the spa wired in on Friday so i don't have any data yet. Mines got a 5kw heater, but i'm guessing/hoping if it's just maintaining the heat it wont run at the full 5kw. It will be pulling from the grid for most of the year if it's only on/off at the full 5kw. It's got the variable heater, so it will tun down the heater when the jets are running to keep the draw under 32A while still having a bit of heating, so although it has the ability, it's about how it behaves when the jets aren't running.

Shindig

1622 posts

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#3310374 19-Nov-2024 07:25

chimera:

Finally if you haven't seen it, an absolute must watch TED talk...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXwGvLj4rak

This TED talk needs its own GZ thread. He talks abit quickly, but directly delivery. Thanks for posting, I have shared it along too.

Also asked the CFO if I can start my solar project back up again. I locked the funds away in a TD for a year, rather than delivering a hasty project. We shall see what she says..!

The little things make the biggest difference.

RobDickinson

1526 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 513

#3310528 19-Nov-2024 08:34

RobDickinson:

Hmm 2nd day in a row the PW has just.. stopped...

Ok so 5pm yesterday we had an hour grid outage whilst something was fixed, wonder if it was to do with that.

jogiles

18 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 11

#3310538 19-Nov-2024 08:51

dantheperson:

chimera:

Also added this to Spa pool https://store.jonathangiles.net/product/espa-mini/ (it's open source if you can be bothered making your own, I couldn't, although designed and 3D printed a case for it) The Shelly EM I have will be repurposed (as get all power data from deye dongle now) for monitoring spa pool wattage (as I have v1 of controller which doesn't support supplying watts) so can control when that turn on too

Thanks for that, i was just about to splash out on the official wifi controller for the spa. Although that has MQTT support for home automation, this opensource project looks much more interesting, and much cheaper hardware.

Do you know how much power your spa draws when it's just maintaining on the heat and filtration cycle? Getting the spa wired in on Friday so i don't have any data yet. Mines got a 5kw heater, but i'm guessing/hoping if it's just maintaining the heat it wont run at the full 5kw. It will be pulling from the grid for most of the year if it's only on/off at the full 5kw. It's got the variable heater, so it will tun down the heater when the jets are running to keep the draw under 32A while still having a bit of heating, so although it has the ability, it's about how it behaves when the jets aren't running.

Thanks to @chimera and @dantheperson for bringing up the eSpa project! If you're not familiar with it, you should definitely go and check out https://espa.diy - an open source project to build a spa pool wifi controller for the (NZ popular) Spanet brand of spa pool controllers. As mentioned, there is the open source firmware, and also instructions on a DIY hardware build (or, the option to buy a pre-made PCB like I offer on my website here: https://store.jonathangiles.net/product/espa-mini/

For those interested in learning more, we also have an active Discord group for discussing all aspects of this project, from firmware, to board design, to building out the website and custom 3D printed enclosure, and much more. You're all welcome to join in here: https://discord.gg/faK8Ag4wHn

-- Jonathan

EgorNZ

64 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 23

#3310546 19-Nov-2024 09:08

HarmLessSolutions:

We're currently experiencing limitations on our inverter output that are a direct result of grid voltage variations that are our lines company's doing.

To background our situation we are located in a rural area so grid anomalies are an expected part of life. We installed an upgrade to our system in August 2023 and soon found that the inverter (an 8.2kW Fronius Primo single phase) was shutting down intermittently due to its detecting grid voltage variations. The inverter monitors export levels and throttles to comply with our 5kW export cap. As a result of the issues we had our installer increase the inverter's operating grid voltage parameters on Fronius's instruction. Problem solved.

In the last couple of months our lines company, Powerco, installed upgraded transformers and voltage regulating equipment in our area. Since then we have noticed that the inverter spends most of the day displaying a "Notice: State 567" which indicates a grid frequency issue. In addition I have noted that the inverter isn't reaching its maximum output capacity of 8.2kW but only ~7.5kW. We have 9.5kW of panels on it and an 8.2kW output was a near constant last summer. Also the export cap isn't being reached and is typically ~4kW despite 5kW being potentially available. Also the inverter output is falling short even when we're charging an EV which leaves only small residual generation for export.

The word from our installer and Fronius Australia who can both see our inverter data is that the unit is reducing its output due to excessive grid voltage (up to 246.5V) in order to prevent contributing to a problem there. This diagnosis fits exactly with the behaviour I'm seeing on the inverter. I'm currently waiting for a callback from Powerco as the staff member was in a meeting when I rang them earlier today.

From what our installer is saying I expect to be flicked off by Powerco but the light at the end of the tunnel is that upcoming changes in NZS4777 will permit us to widen our inverter's grid voltage parameters when that occurs to +/-10% rather than the current +/-5% which will solve the problem. In the meantime our peak generation period over summer will be clipped by Powerco's issues.

So, in essence we're suffering output restrictions due to the malfunctioning of Powerco's infrastructure despite having to comply with their export cap and other installation regulations. Is there anybody else out there that are experiencing similar issues in their (rural?) location?

Sounds similar to the issue I was having with my system (which we discussed a few pages ago). My 10kW panels/8kW inverter never reach near their capacity, and the verdict was that it had something to do with grid voltage. I haven't had any resolution yet.

I also receive error 1036 from the Fronius every 10 days or so: "The grid frequency has exceeded a limit value when reconnecting"

RobDickinson

1526 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 513

#3310547 19-Nov-2024 09:21

Conversely I have 9.25kw and the PW3 has a 10kw inverter??

HarmLessSolutions

1230 posts

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#3310553 19-Nov-2024 09:36

EgorNZ:

Sounds similar to the issue I was having with my system (which we discussed a few pages ago). My 10kW panels/8kW inverter never reach near their capacity, and the verdict was that it had something to do with grid voltage. I haven't had any resolution yet.

I also receive error 1036 from the Fronius every 10 days or so: "The grid frequency has exceeded a limit value when reconnecting"

In our case the inverter came 'preloaded' with a relatively unforgiving grid voltage acceptance. Following inverter shut downs our installer widened those parameters to +/-5% which solved the problem, until Powerco installed new infrastructure in our area which has increased the voltage again.

I suggest you ask your installer to check that your settings are as wide as they can be under current regulations (i.e. +/-5%) and bear in mind that the upcoming changes to AS/NZS 4777.1:2024 which I'm advised will allow setting to be +/-10% are likely to arrive in NZ early next year.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

EgorNZ

64 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 23

#3310556 19-Nov-2024 09:41

HarmLessSolutions:

In our case the inverter came 'preloaded' with a relatively unforgiving grid voltage acceptance. Following inverter shut downs our installer widened those parameters to +/-5% which solved the problem, until Powerco installed new infrastructure in our area which has increased the voltage again.

I suggest you ask your installer to check that your settings are as wide as they can be under current regulations (i.e. +/-5%) and bear in mind that the upcoming changes to AS/NZS 4777.1:2024 which I'm advised will allow setting to be +/-10% are likely to arrive in NZ early next year.

Interesting, thanks!

Does your Fronius throw errors about the grid voltage? I was just looking at the docs and saw there are codes for this. But the only errors my system produces are about grid frequency.

dantheperson

226 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 63

#3310561 19-Nov-2024 09:51

EgorNZ:

Interesting, thanks!

Does your Fronius throw errors about the grid voltage? I was just looking at the docs and saw there are codes for this. But the only errors my system produces are about grid frequency.

I get the odd day here and there (usually a particular sunny day) where i get lots of grid voltage exceeded warnings and the inverter restarts and slowly ramps back up.

I've also seen the odd frequency warning when production starts in the morning, but it doesn't seem to affect production.

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