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HarmLessSolutions
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  #3312252 23-Nov-2024 20:10
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HarmLessSolutions:

 

Jase2985:

 

I get "The grid frequency has exceeded a limit value when reconnecting" but it's usually first thing in the morning when the inverter is switching on.

 

 

From what I'm seeing in the Fronius data log the voltage doesn't become problematic until later in the morning. I'm no gridologist but it seems to be that the transformers/voltage regulators may be overcompensating as the demand increases. If the Powerco guy ever calls back I've got a few things to discuss with him along those lines.

 

 

Following a chat I had with our solar installer it seems my assumptions weren't too far off the mark. He's a very knowledgeable chap having worked in the solar industry in Europe and Australia for more than the last decade. With that much experience he's seen it all before so has a great understanding of what's going on behind the scenes so far as the lines companies are concerned.

 

We're also lucky enough to have someone in our neighbourhood who works at Powerco and has advised me to contact their distributed generation department. From the email I have now sent them: 

 

"Our PV installation was upgraded to its present 8.2kW ability in August 2023. We have our installation operating on just one phase so have export monitoring in place with the inverter limiting its output to ensure the 5kW/phase cap isn't breached.

At that time our installation was upgraded our installer reconfigured the inverter's settings to prevent it shutting down intermittently as a result of grid voltage variations, which solved the issues we had been experiencing up until that time.

Powerco has recently installed a new transformer and associated devices serving our area with numerous power outages required to do so. Prior to these works being untaken our grid voltage occasionally reached ~244V but was within the range of acceptability of our inverter, however following the last of the upgrade work by Powerco that took place on 24th October our grid voltage (as monitored and logged by our inverter's data feed) has reach 246V or more at times on virtually every day since that work was carried out.

In line with AS/NZS 4777.2:2020 the inverter's setting parametrs are limited to grid voltages of +/-5% of nominal which up until the recent upgrade was sufficient to deal with the grid voltages we were experiencing but with grid voltages reaching >246V this is no longer the case with the inverter displaying an error state relating to 'grid frequency' for most of the day. This causes the inverter to decrease its output both in terms of reduced export cap which struggles to go beyond 4kW rather than the 5kW cap we have to comply with and also in terms of total output at those times when we are self consuming sufficient of our generation to be well short of the export cap.

I am advised by our installer that the incoming AS/NZS 4777.2:2024 will allow us a wider parameter of grid voltage (i.e. +/-10%) which will solve the problem we are currently experiencing but this standard is not expected to come into force until summer's end which means that we will have our peak production compromised in the interim."

 

We've yet to receive a reply from Powerco. Our installer has previously pursued similar issues in regard to other installations they have put in but in their experience Powerco usually flicked them off with no solution being forthcoming. At the least I'm chasing this up with Powerco in order to at least register with them that their infrastructure is failing to perform as it should do in our area. Also interesting to note that our installer claims that such issues aren't restricted to rural areas with similar issues being seen in urban areas. Essentially in his opinion Powerco's infrastructure is unable to cope with distributed generation input to it and this is resulting in voltage regulation falling short of doing its job.

 

This doesn't bode well in regard to the news of lines charges being in for an increase next year, and particularly so for those areas whose lines infrastructure is falling short of expectations. The issues we are seeing now are probably prime evidence to support a hefty lines charge increase. 

 

Irrespective of that though it is well worth maintaining a close eye on how your solar is performing in regards to grid conditions in your area and if you are suffering compromise in this let your lines company know. 'Squeaky wheel' and all that.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


CrazyM
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  #3312521 25-Nov-2024 08:11
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So what is the maximum allowable grid voltage these days?


RobDickinson
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  #3312672 25-Nov-2024 13:44
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OK seems my intermittent outages may be the same reason, higher line voltage

 

 

 


HarmLessSolutions
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  #3312673 25-Nov-2024 13:57
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Apparently Australia reduced the domestic voltage in most states a few years back, from 240V to 230V, to allow them some flexibility as rooftop solar became prevalent. From what I'm hearing the input of domestic solar can increase line voltages, locally at least, so by dropping the 'base' voltage the increases from solar generation can be absorbed without supplied voltages being excessive.

 

It seems curious that Powerco have seen fit to increase grid voltages with the recent upgrade in our area as in doing so they have caused line voltage to rise to the point of being problematic. This is compromising the output of our solar but I'm wondering what other negative impacts are they having on customers' devices and/or existing grid infrastructure?





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


RobDickinson
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  #3312675 25-Nov-2024 14:00
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Tesla support now telling me its been going up to 250v... 


HarmLessSolutions
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  #3312695 25-Nov-2024 14:31
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RobDickinson:

 

Tesla support now telling me its been going up to 250v... 

 

Any potential warranty issues with the device being connected to grid supply that's misbehaving to that extent? Definitely worth keeping an eye on your grid voltage (which is logged in our Fronius datastream) and making some noise to your lines company.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


RobDickinson
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  #3312698 25-Nov-2024 14:33
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I dont see any data like that in the tesla app, it obviously does exist as you can access it but I would probably need some other access to see it myself


Jase2985
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  #3312701 25-Nov-2024 14:40
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CrazyM:

 

So what is the maximum allowable grid voltage these days?

 

 

Vector in Auckland state "230 volts ± 6% for single phase and 400 volts ± 6% for three-phase at the point of supply"

 

So 216-244V.

 

I see small spikes into the 245's, but it seems to be when the inverter is off (overnight). Most of the time I'm 235-243V. I'm close to our transformer ~100m as the cable runs.

 

 

 

It seems like the more the system is exporting, the further away from the Grid voltage the inverter gets, with the inverter being up to about 2.5V higher than the grid voltage.


MikeFly
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  #3312707 25-Nov-2024 14:47
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RobDickinson:

 

I dont see any data like that in the tesla app, it obviously does exist as you can access it but I would probably need some other access to see it myself

 

 

 

 

Might be worth buying a Shelly PRO EM-50. It will measure all sorts of parameters including peak voltage.

 

 

 

I am on Powerco and see its peaking at 246V

 

 

 

They are having a black Friday sale starting tomorrow.


RobDickinson
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  #3312709 25-Nov-2024 14:50
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eh not sure there is any point in me looking at it if I cant do anything about it 


dantheperson
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  #3312714 25-Nov-2024 15:01
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In my case, when the Fronius GEN24 restarts due to "1117 (Error)    Long-term mains voltage limit exceeded", and i take a look in my solarweb, i usually see figures in the high 247s at the inverter.   The reading by the energy meter in the fuseboard is usually 1-2V lower.

 

Solarweb gives figures for a 5 minute window, i'm not sure how they come up with a single figure, presumably it's the mean/average, and so i'm guessing it's spiked above 247 volts to trigger the shutdown.

 

One day i might get around to running my own datalogger so i can get more granular data and then archive that down longterm to 5 minute windows but with min/max/mean values for each 5min window instead of only a single value.


HarmLessSolutions
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  #3312718 25-Nov-2024 15:15
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Jase2985:

 

CrazyM:

 

So what is the maximum allowable grid voltage these days?

 

 

Vector in Auckland state "230 volts ± 6% for single phase and 400 volts ± 6% for three-phase at the point of supply"

 

So 216-244V.

 

I see small spikes into the 245's, but it seems to be when the inverter is off (overnight). Most of the time I'm 235-243V. I'm close to our transformer ~100m as the cable runs.

 

It seems like the more the system is exporting, the further away from the Grid voltage the inverter gets, with the inverter being up to about 2.5V higher than the grid voltage.

 

Our logging is seeing 234-246 with the occasional outlier on both ends. The low end is generally at the ends of our generating day. The inverter doesn't read grid voltage when it's not active/generating.

 

Our installer has advised that Powerco's infrastructure here in North Taranaki is archaic and unable to cope with and regulate grid voltage fluctuations effectively. That reflects what I'm seeing on our logging. Peaks often occur coinciding with our export but this isn't always the case which is possibly due to dairy farm pumps and chillers cutting in and out with Powerco's voltage regulators failing to react quickly enough to maintain line voltages. Increasing numbers of customers with distributed generation will only exacerbate the problem.

 

Irrespective of whether the voltage peaks are our making due to exporting generation the inverter senses the instability and steps down its output in an attempt to correct the issue rather than shutting itself down. When it shuts down it is because this strategy obviously doesn't succeed. 

 

From our installer, Powerco have only one means of regulating control of domestic generator's input which is the 5kW/phase cap. Beyond that the next line of defence should be effective voltage regulation but their infrastructure is able to do so effectively. 





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


HarmLessSolutions
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  #3312721 25-Nov-2024 15:21
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dantheperson:

 

In my case, when the Fronius GEN24 restarts due to "1117 (Error)    Long-term mains voltage limit exceeded", and i take a look in my solarweb, i usually see figures in the high 247s at the inverter.   The reading by the energy meter in the fuseboard is usually 1-2V lower.

 

Solarweb gives figures for a 5 minute window, i'm not sure how they come up with a single figure, presumably it's the mean/average, and so i'm guessing it's spiked above 247 volts to trigger the shutdown.

 

One day i might get around to running my own datalogger so i can get more granular data and then archive that down longterm to 5 minute windows but with min/max/mean values for each 5min window instead of only a single value.

 

 

I'm guessing that as distributed generation (from solar) gains popularity a side effect will be more customers with accurate grid monitoring taking the lines companies to task over issues that previously went unreported for the most part. The amount of data a typical solar installation makes available to us is great for monitoring the quality of the system we are being connected to.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


CrazyM
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  #3312852 25-Nov-2024 20:09
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My Huawei has monitoring down to the second and it hit the Grid Overvoltage alarm of exceeding 250v 7 times yesterday. The alarm clears after fault recovery (sometime 10 seconds, sometimes longer) but its still not ideal.

 

I've been waiting for Waipa Networks to tap the transformer but they need to log the voltages first and all their loggers have been out on jobs for months....


HarmLessSolutions
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  #3312858 25-Nov-2024 20:32
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CrazyM:

 

My Huawei has monitoring down to the second and it hit the Grid Overvoltage alarm of exceeding 250v 7 times yesterday. The alarm clears after fault recovery (sometime 10 seconds, sometimes longer) but its still not ideal.

 

I've been waiting for Waipa Networks to tap the transformer but they need to log the voltages first and all their loggers have been out on jobs for months....

 

Our installer is currently monitoring around 70 Fronius inverters that they have previously installed in this region. On average 50% of those inverters are emailing our installer at least daily about voltage related faulting. This problem is common and not just for rurally located solar installations.

 

As solar installations increase so too will voltage regulation and other issues as the aging grid infrastructure groans under the load. The lines company price increases announced this week relate to capex required to bring infrastructure up to speed and the comment that I was told was that Powerco's Taranaki infrastructure is in dire shape so we are likely to be stung as a result. Apparently the Wanaka area is already seeing daily lines charges of "$3, 4 or $5" so $150/month to export just to cover lines charges. There's a huge uptake of batteries in that area too unsurprisingly.





https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/


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