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tdgeek
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  #2296243 13-Aug-2019 08:16
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networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

I am wondering how it's better for some and just as bad for others?

 

 

 

 

We have been told the frame reduction was to allow compatibility to some devices. Maybe the devices used are part of that group? I also see changes in latest content. I also see improvements on devices that are not to the TV, tablet, laptop. BUT, while I can improve matters with TV motion settings, on the latest WTA final, no settings matter, its all good. As it was before this all started. That tells me that new content might all be fine, but the older is already created as the lesser fps version. I checked Wimbledon, that wasn't great. But it supports my feeling that new content might now be ok, old is still what it ended up as. All supposition, but thats exactly what I see. You said yours is no better, can you check the WTA Final? Both on a tablet or PC and to a TV? 

 

 

It doesn't make sense that some content would be ok and others not. They won't have been able to dictate to the original broadcasters to change anything, so they can only have manipulated the stream themselves, but it's less likely they did that and surely more likely they are just applying a filtering to the stream in some way. I can't profess to have internal knowledge of how they are handling it, but I guess you could check and see if content before the 30fps drop looks fantastic like it did before. I'll bet it probably doesn't.

 

Further more the content I was having trouble with was content from years ago.

 

I'll check that specific stream tomorrow evening if I get time, but logically I don't think it's going to be that content during certain timeframes should look different to others.

 

 

 

 

Ok, its only my observations, others are seeing this also. The content is not from the original broadcaster, its from iStreamPlanet, who obtain the broadcasters feed, encode it, send it to Akamai. If problem content is still a problem but the latest versions of the sport are a lot better, that makes me assume we are seeing newer improved content. If any filtering was done locally them all content would change you would think.




ockel
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  #2296441 13-Aug-2019 11:41

With a month to go until the RWC, shouldnt the app reviews in the various stores be getting better, not worse?

 

Clearly the EPL has brought out a swag of opinions/reviews.  And almost none of them are like Chris Kealls opinion.





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ALTRON
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  #2296545 13-Aug-2019 14:41
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One of the many things that bothers me about spark sport is their idea of what “ broadcast quality “ video is.
There’s no way 30fps ( or 25 or WHATEVER it is) 6Mbit 1080p is to be considered acceptable.

The bar just keeps getting lower and people are happy with it as it’s “ streamed so it’s meant to be not great “



tdgeek
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  #2297655 13-Aug-2019 18:24
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ALTRON: One of the many things that bothers me about spark sport is their idea of what “ broadcast quality “ video is.
There’s no way 30fps ( or 25 or WHATEVER it is) 6Mbit 1080p is to be considered acceptable.

The bar just keeps getting lower and people are happy with it as it’s “ streamed so it’s meant to be not great “

 

Its not that. Sky is low as in 1080i/25 But its encoded well. I guess thats 50 fps but interlaced so its one 50 frame/2 But its looks good that al that really matters.

 

 


hio77
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  #2297672 13-Aug-2019 19:30
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ALTRON: One of the many things that bothers me about spark sport is their idea of what “ broadcast quality “ video is.
There’s no way 30fps ( or 25 or WHATEVER it is) 6Mbit 1080p is to be considered acceptable.

The bar just keeps getting lower and people are happy with it as it’s “ streamed so it’s meant to be not great “

 

Can you explain your viewpoint a little more there?

 

 

 

if we compare to what's typical bitrates for a 30fps 1080P streamed file, sub 6mbit is very typical after encoding..

 

i suspect your referring to the actual experience rather than raw numbers though? 





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sbiddle
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  #2297673 13-Aug-2019 19:33
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ALTRON: One of the many things that bothers me about spark sport is their idea of what “ broadcast quality “ video is.
There’s no way 30fps ( or 25 or WHATEVER it is) 6Mbit 1080p is to be considered acceptable.

The bar just keeps getting lower and people are happy with it as it’s “ streamed so it’s meant to be not great “

 

6Mbps is a perfectly acceptable bitrate to be broadcasting 1080i/25 content in the real world on DVB T/S platforms. It's how it's encoded that is the issue.

 

 

 

 


arnies
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  #2299440 14-Aug-2019 20:24
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Used a friends Kayo account to compare. Can now definitely see the difference between 30 and 50-60 frames.

 

 

Kayo is certainly smoother. Hopefully SS can reintroduce a higher frame rate, at least on browser.

 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2299716 15-Aug-2019 12:00
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Part of a Herald article about SkySportNow that is relevant here, as bolded. This tells me it will go back to being great to view.

 

 

 

Rival Spark Sport recently chopped down its video quality to 30 frames per second (fps) at 1080p HD after issues with older Google Chromecasts and laptops that could handle 60fps.

 

Sky Sport Now offers full-blooded 60fps at 1080p HD (its predecessor, Fanpass, offered 60fps at 720p HD).

 

Spark says it aims to get back to 60fps. For me, at home and work, both services have streamed smoothly (though some did have trouble over the weekend with Spark).


demeter23
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  #2299720 15-Aug-2019 12:04
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tdgeek:

 

Part of a Herald article about SkySportNow that is relevant here, as bolded. This tells me it will go back to being great to view.

 

 

 

Rival Spark Sport recently chopped down its video quality to 30 frames per second (fps) at 1080p HD after issues with older Google Chromecasts and laptops that could handle 60fps.

 

Sky Sport Now offers full-blooded 60fps at 1080p HD (its predecessor, Fanpass, offered 60fps at 720p HD).

 

Spark says it aims to get back to 60fps. For me, at home and work, both services have streamed smoothly (though some did have trouble over the weekend with Spark).

 

 

 

 

Spark have always maintained the aim is to get back to 60FPS.  I don't think there is an argument on that, I have it in writing from them awhile back.  Its more the issue that they dropped it down after initially commencing with 60FPS that is the issue for a lot of people, myself included.  


tdgeek
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  #2299723 15-Aug-2019 12:11
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demeter23:

 

tdgeek:

 

Part of a Herald article about SkySportNow that is relevant here, as bolded. This tells me it will go back to being great to view.

 

 

 

Rival Spark Sport recently chopped down its video quality to 30 frames per second (fps) at 1080p HD after issues with older Google Chromecasts and laptops that could handle 60fps.

 

Sky Sport Now offers full-blooded 60fps at 1080p HD (its predecessor, Fanpass, offered 60fps at 720p HD).

 

Spark says it aims to get back to 60fps. For me, at home and work, both services have streamed smoothly (though some did have trouble over the weekend with Spark).

 

 

 

 

Spark have always maintained the aim is to get back to 60FPS.  I don't think there is an argument on that, I have it in writing from them awhile back.  Its more the issue that they dropped it down after initially commencing with 60FPS that is the issue for a lot of people, myself included.  

 

 

Did you get an official word? There have been varying words stated form the helpdesk people. Im not aware of any official word


Benoire
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  #2299730 15-Aug-2019 12:24
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from twitter CS therefore has to be official: https://twitter.com/sparknzsport/status/1161052147275845632

 

 


jasonsweetbix
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  #2299737 15-Aug-2019 12:31
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tdgeek:

 

ALTRON: One of the many things that bothers me about spark sport is their idea of what “ broadcast quality “ video is.
There’s no way 30fps ( or 25 or WHATEVER it is) 6Mbit 1080p is to be considered acceptable.

The bar just keeps getting lower and people are happy with it as it’s “ streamed so it’s meant to be not great “

 

Its not that. Sky is low as in 1080i/25 But its encoded well. I guess thats 50 fps but interlaced so its one 50 frame/2 But its looks good that al that really matters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think a key difference for quality of fast paced movement (and I think the root of most quality concerns) is the interlacing.  In order to transport video efficiently and playback on most modern devices you need to convert your video to h.264.  Unfortunately h.264 doesn't play nicely with interlacing and you end up needing to convert the interlaced frames to progressive frames.  So instead of a half frame being displayed every 1/60th of a second, you end up with a whole frame every 1/30th of a second.  This makes movement more staggered.

 

As far as some of the complaints around resolution, the switch from 60fps to 30fps would make absolutely no difference to that at all.


tdgeek
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  #2299739 15-Aug-2019 12:35
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Benoire:

 

from twitter CS therefore has to be official: https://twitter.com/sparknzsport/status/1161052147275845632

 

 

 

 

Which says its 30, we want to improve it. It actually implies no 60 to come


tdgeek
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  #2299741 15-Aug-2019 12:37
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jasonsweetbix:

 

tdgeek:

 

ALTRON: One of the many things that bothers me about spark sport is their idea of what “ broadcast quality “ video is.
There’s no way 30fps ( or 25 or WHATEVER it is) 6Mbit 1080p is to be considered acceptable.

The bar just keeps getting lower and people are happy with it as it’s “ streamed so it’s meant to be not great “

 

Its not that. Sky is low as in 1080i/25 But its encoded well. I guess thats 50 fps but interlaced so its one 50 frame/2 But its looks good that al that really matters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think a key difference for quality of fast paced movement (and I think the root of most quality concerns) is the interlacing.  In order to transport video efficiently and playback on most modern devices you need to convert your video to h.264.  Unfortunately h.264 doesn't play nicely with interlacing and you end up needing to convert the interlaced frames to progressive frames.  So instead of a half frame being displayed every 1/60th of a second, you end up with a whole frame every 1/30th of a second.  This makes movement more staggered.

 

As far as some of the complaints around resolution, the switch from 60fps to 30fps would make absolutely no difference to that at all.

 

 

As far as I am aware SS are 1080p  not 1080i/ Sky is 1080i and that's fine, as they encode very well. Why does Sky not have this issue?


Stevereds
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  #2299746 15-Aug-2019 12:41
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Well after my Chat with Spark Sport that I published a few pages back and after another attempt to watch historical footage last night on a 55 inch TV it is looking like I will be getting a Spark rugby refund and exploring other options. Arnie's comments about Kayo has pretty well confirmed the next option.

It did seem better last night than about 2 weeks ago but still uncomfortable watching and literally makes me feel nauseous.

We also have a 5m wide projection screen and that jerkiness will be amplified terribly I am sure.

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