Is Netflix too much traffic for your ISP?

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#1291218 25-Apr-2015 09:26

Sideface:
pchs: So it seems that the degraded performance is only happening on DSL, not on Fibre - so I would not say its an overall "ISP backhaul/network capacity" issue"...

Performance degradation is not limited to xDSL - look at these TrueNet stats for Wellington cable over the last week:

Note the severe speed dip at 9pm.

Netflix might be the straw that broke the camels back for cable speeds but those problems started in December.

JohnButt

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#1291220 25-Apr-2015 09:47

sbiddle:
tieke:
BigPipeNZ:
... a lot of iiNet customers have been (anecdotally) reporting significant slowdowns in the same period on forums like whirlpool.com.au

By the sounds of this reddit post, some Aussie ISPs have definitely felt the need to address capacity.

Australia's problem is also it's wholesale network. They have terrible DSL speeds, horrible wholesale product dimensioning, and horrible wholesale network architecture compared to NZ.

Primarily they managed to exclude VDSL and do not have the copper network design to install cabinets efficiently. So not only are they limited to ADSL by regulation but also by long lines due to poor design decisions in the 80's

DonGould

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#1291231 25-Apr-2015 10:32

gbwelly: Netflix might be the straw that broke the camels back for cable speeds but those problems started in December.

The straw that broke the camels back or the straw that pushed the case for more node partitioning?

It's not that hard to upgrade the cable network really is it? It's just a long run of coax cable off a head end. Just break up some fibre and drop an extra node in the line?

Sure, it's not something that your average 1337 geekzone reader can do, but we have smart people in .nz that could do this stuff with their eyes closed!

D

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#1291257 25-Apr-2015 11:10

gbwelly:
Sideface: Performance degradation is not limited to xDSL - look at these TrueNet stats for Wellington cable over the last week:

Note the severe speed dip at 9pm.

Netflix might be the straw that broke the camels back for cable speeds but those problems started in December.

+1
Congestion has been a major problem on my Wellington 100/10Mbps cable connection since December.
Now cable is starting to slow down in the morning, as well as the usual evening dip - which is getting deeper and wider.

Sideface

DonGould

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#1291260 25-Apr-2015 11:42

Sideface:
+1
Congestion has been a major problem on my Wellington 100/10Mbps cable connection since December.
Now cable is starting to slow down in the morning, as well as the usual evening dip - which is getting deeper and wider.

...but what's actually slowing down and where is the congestion?

iirc Wellington is based on 2000 drops per node v's Christchurch which is based on 500.

What's the connection between the DOCIS node and its up stream? 1Gb, 10Gb? Likely 1Gb would be my guess as the nodes will only feed less than that anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS#Versions

Do some simple math.

2,000 drops * 4mbit/s NetFlix = ?

Then there's the question of how those 1Gb fibres are switched and routed.

Say 48 1Gb fibres dropping into a switch in Wellington is going to have much more load on it than the same switch in Christchurch.

Then you also need to question what proxy is in the path, the list goes on and on and on.

Really, I know we know nothing. It would be kinda nice I guess if the folk with clue would fess up and tell us what's going down, but do they even know anyway? Do they actually have enough monitoring in the path to see what's really going on?

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Dratsab

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#1291287 25-Apr-2015 13:10

Always interesting to see these sort of stats. In our household we don't watch broadcast TV anymore. As a result we stream a lot of Netflix and Youtube but to-date, fingers crossed, have not noticed any problems (buffering) we would normally associate with congestion. This suggests to me that while slowdowns may have occurred there is currently more than enough capacity (on Vodafone VDSL at least) to cope with it.

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DonGould

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#1291304 25-Apr-2015 14:21

Dratsab: Always interesting to see these sort of stats. In our household we don't watch broadcast TV anymore. As a result we stream a lot of Netflix and Youtube but to-date, fingers crossed, have not noticed any problems (buffering) we would normally associate with congestion. This suggests to me that while slowdowns may have occurred there is currently more than enough capacity (on Vodafone VDSL at least) to cope with it.

You shouldn't notice buffering either if you're on ADSL.

At the end of the day the government commitment for ADSL was 10mbit.

Netflix pulls about 4mbit when you're running it on an apple TV box. that means that there's room for 2 services per ADSL service at the same time.

If you can't run two of these things in your home and you're on ADSL then it's time to ring your MP and have a chat.

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#1291305 25-Apr-2015 14:31

DonGould: [snip]

At the end of the day the government commitment for ADSL was 10mbit.

Netflix pulls about 4mbit when you're running it on an apple TV box. that means that there's room for 2 services per ADSL service at the same time.

If you can't run two of these things in your home and you're on ADSL then it's time to ring your MP and have a chat.

LOL WUT?!

N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

DonGould

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#1291334 25-Apr-2015 16:08

Talkiet:
DonGould: [snip]

At the end of the day the government commitment for ADSL was 10mbit.

Netflix pulls about 4mbit when you're running it on an apple TV box. that means that there's room for 2 services per ADSL service at the same time.

If you can't run two of these things in your home and you're on ADSL then it's time to ring your MP and have a chat.

LOL WUT?!

N

Neil can you please explain why you find the comment you highlighted amusing?

D

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Aredwood

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#1291345 25-Apr-2015 16:20

DonGould:
Dratsab: Always interesting to see these sort of stats. In our household we don't watch broadcast TV anymore. As a result we stream a lot of Netflix and Youtube but to-date, fingers crossed, have not noticed any problems (buffering) we would normally associate with congestion. This suggests to me that while slowdowns may have occurred there is currently more than enough capacity (on Vodafone VDSL at least) to cope with it.

You shouldn't notice buffering either if you're on ADSL.

At the end of the day the government commitment for ADSL was 10mbit.

Netflix pulls about 4mbit when you're running it on an apple TV box. that means that there's room for 2 services per ADSL service at the same time.

If you can't run two of these things in your home and you're on ADSL then it's time to ring your MP and have a chat.

Guess everyone who is connected to a Conklin Is now going to call their MP.

Talkiet

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#1291354 25-Apr-2015 16:30

DonGould:
Talkiet:
DonGould: [snip]

At the end of the day the government commitment for ADSL was 10mbit.

Netflix pulls about 4mbit when you're running it on an apple TV box. that means that there's room for 2 services per ADSL service at the same time.

If you can't run two of these things in your home and you're on ADSL then it's time to ring your MP and have a chat.

LOL WUT?!

N

Neil can you please explain why you find the comment you highlighted amusing?

D

If you honestly don't know, then I don't think it's possible to explain it to you. I'll go to my grave swearing that I truly and fully believe this.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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roobarb

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#1291355 25-Apr-2015 16:31

I'd like to compare internet traffic with a road system.

Broadcast TV, satellite and terrestrial, is incredibly efficient, its like have a single car containing a million people on a road, the internet is the reverse, it's a million cars with one person each. Of course, those million people in that single car must want to go the same place at the same time. Just building roads does not solve congestion, it encourages more traffic and just moves the problem around.

lxsw20

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#1291357 25-Apr-2015 16:32

DonGould:
Talkiet:
DonGould: [snip]

At the end of the day the government commitment for ADSL was 10mbit.

Netflix pulls about 4mbit when you're running it on an apple TV box. that means that there's room for 2 services per ADSL service at the same time.

If you can't run two of these things in your home and you're on ADSL then it's time to ring your MP and have a chat.

LOL WUT?!

N

Neil can you please explain why you find the comment you highlighted amusing?

D

Where did you get the idea everyone on xDSL is entitled to 10mbit plus?

Sideface

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#1291376 25-Apr-2015 16:59

DonGould: ...If you can't run two of these things in your home and you're on ADSL then it's time to ring your MP and have a chat.

That's like saying "it's time to ring the Vodafone Help Desk and have a chat."

EDIT .... except that the help desk is more likely to answer the phone.

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raytaylor

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#1291418 25-Apr-2015 18:15

BigPipeNZ:

The iiNet CEO recently claimed that Netflix has gone from being 3% of his traffic before launch, to being 25% of all his traffic within 3 weeks since launch. to do it that quickly seems unusual, so I'm a little sceptical of that tbh, but a lot of iiNet customers have been (anecdotally) reporting significant slowdowns in the same period on forums like whirlpool.com.au

The small rural ISPs in the USA that I chat to also report between 20-40% of their traffic is now netflix

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